Dave Parker - HOF?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Absolutely. This is why you won't find a GM looking to trade for the next Nolan Ryan. Sure fun to watch, but you'll get more wins with a Maddux.

I think a GM would be ecstatic to trade for the next Nolan Ryan. Kevin Gausman gets $21-23 Million a year based on one passable season out of 10.

Nolan would only have to go 5 or 6 innings a game. He'd be able to throw even harder, and snap that curveball even sharper then he already did.

Modern coaching would likely be able to shave the walk rate he was cursed with the 1st half of his career, down a bit in the process to.

Yeah, Maddux was better...but that's a pretty high bar.

[HistoricNewspapers]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think a GM would be ecstatic to trade for the next Nolan Ryan. Kevin Gausman gets $21-23 Million a year based on one passable season out of 10.

Nolan would only have to go 5 or 6 innings a game. He'd be able to throw even harder, and snap that curveball even sharper then he already did.

Modern coaching would likely be able to shave the walk rate he was cursed with the 1st half of his career, down a bit in the process to.

Yeah, Maddux was better...but that's a pretty high bar.

Actually, GM's ARE looking for pitchers like Nolan Ryan and want to do exactly what you said...teach them command.

Ryan may actually be the beginning of what the modern game is looking for. He is a pioneer of sorts in that way.

There are a lot of guys with his arsenal now and with command already engrained in them though.


However, Ryan would be a victim of limited innings too because that is more of a strategy being employed as opposed to the modern pitcher's ability/inability to pitch more innings.


The higher velocity a ball is coming greatly increases the chances are that it will not be hit. That is why GM's want guys who can throw hard. It doesn't mean that a strikeout is much different that a batted ball out...its just that pitchers who throw so hard are going to induce more strikeouts by virtue that it is harder to hit higher velocity pitches located in the same place as lower velocity pitches. So it produces more outs.'

Nolan Ryan had a modern arsenal of pitches with lesser command and guys 'back in the day' were striking out left and right vs him too...and those guys are supposedly 'contact' kings compared to now, yet they struck out just as much agains the type of velocity seen today, its just that not as many back then had it.

On the flip side, hitters do have to sell out more as well because of the number of flame throwers now, so they do sacrifice more strikeouts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HistoricNewspapers

Actually, GM's ARE looking for pitchers like Nolan Ryan and want to do exactly what you said...teach them command.

Ryan may actually be the beginning of what the modern game is looking for. He is a pioneer of sorts in that way.

There are a lot of guys with his arsenal now and with command already engrained in them though.


However, Ryan would be a victim of limited innings too because that is more of a strategy being employed as opposed to the modern pitcher's ability/inability to pitch more innings.


The higher velocity a ball is coming greatly increases the chances are that it will not be hit. That is why GM's want guys who can throw hard. It doesn't mean that a strikeout is much different that a batted ball out...its just that pitchers who throw so hard are going to induce more strikeouts by virtue that it is harder to hit higher velocity pitches located in the same place as lower velocity pitches. So it produces more outs.'

Nolan Ryan had a modern arsenal of pitches with lesser command and guys 'back in the day' were striking out left and right vs him too...and those guys are supposedly 'contact' kings compared to now, yet they struck out just as much agains the type of velocity seen today, its just that not as many back then had it.

On the flip side, hitters do have to sell out more as well because of the number of flame throwers now, so they do sacrifice more strikeouts.

Yeah he just didn't have consistent control especially of his curve which was his great negative. When he did, he was dominant.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If someone wants Dave Parker in what are their thoughts on Rocky Colavito? Better Power numbers in a bad power hitting era and very similar in the field. Average fielder with canon arm. (or Roy Sievers, Frank Howard, George Foster, Jack Clark ad infinitum)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Similar batters, according to Baseball Reference. I would not have guessed Torii Hunter hit 350 HR.

Similar Batters
Luis Gonzalez (907.1)
Torii Hunter (906.8)
Tony Perez (895.7) *
Billy Williams (883.9) *
Garret Anderson (874.5)
Harold Baines (871.6) *
Andre Dawson (865.2) *
Al Oliver (862.7)
Chili Davis (859.1)
Rusty Staub (857.1)

[Jason19th]

[QUOTE=D. Bergin;2215002]I think a GM would be ecstatic to trade for the next Nolan Ryan. Kevin Gausman gets $21-23 Million a year based on one passable season out of 10.

Nolan would only have to go 5 or 6 innings a game. He'd be able to throw even harder, and snap that curveball even sharper then he already did.

Modern coaching would likely be able to shave the walk rate he was cursed with the 1st half of his career, down a bit in the process to.

I would argue that Nolan’s walk rate has nothing to do with control. I believe- and I may be stealing some of this from Bill James- that it was Nolan’s ego that lead to his walks. He was obsessed with limiting hits. He refused to give anyone anything to hit ever. While this got him lots of glory and no hitters it also lead to the insane pitch counts, the super high walk rates and his very mediocre era’s. He would have rather had an inning where he threw 40 pitches to get three walks and 3 strike outs then to risk giving up a hit. A lot of people seem to celebrate this. I don’t understand the adoration.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

[QUOTE=Jason19th;2215347]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I would argue that Nolan’s walk rate has nothing to do with control. I believe- and I may be stealing some of this from Bill James- that it was Nolan’s ego that lead to his walks. He was obsessed with limiting hits. He refused to give anyone anything to hit ever. While this got him lots of glory and no hitters it also lead to the insane pitch counts, the super high walk rates and his very mediocre era’s. He would have rather had an inning where he threw 40 pitches to get three walks and 3 strike outs then to risk giving up a hit. A lot of people seem to celebrate this. I don’t understand the adoration.

Not sure I buy this as his walk rate was almost always steadily improving through his career. In his last 9 full seasons he had 8 of his best BB/9 rates.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

[QUOTE=Jason19th;2215347]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I would argue that Nolan’s walk rate has nothing to do with control. I believe- and I may be stealing some of this from Bill James- that it was Nolan’s ego that lead to his walks. He was obsessed with limiting hits. He refused to give anyone anything to hit ever. While this got him lots of glory and no hitters it also lead to the insane pitch counts, the super high walk rates and his very mediocre era’s. He would have rather had an inning where he threw 40 pitches to get three walks and 3 strike outs then to risk giving up a hit. A lot of people seem to celebrate this. I don’t understand the adoration.

Not sure I buy this as his walk rate was almost always steadily improving through his career. In his last 9 full seasons he had 8 of his best BB/9 rates.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think a GM would be ecstatic to trade for the next Nolan Ryan. Kevin Gausman gets $21-23 Million a year based on one passable season out of 10.

Nolan would only have to go 5 or 6 innings a game. He'd be able to throw even harder, and snap that curveball even sharper then he already did.

Modern coaching would likely be able to shave the walk rate he was cursed with the 1st half of his career, down a bit in the process to.

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I would argue that Nolan’s walk rate has nothing to do with control. I believe- and I may be stealing some of this from Bill James- that it was Nolan’s ego that lead to his walks. He was obsessed with limiting hits. He refused to give anyone anything to hit ever. While this got him lots of glory and no hitters it also lead to the insane pitch counts, the super high walk rates and his very mediocre era’s. He would have rather had an inning where he threw 40 pitches to get three walks and 3 strike outs then to risk giving up a hit. A lot of people seem to celebrate this. I don’t understand the adoration.

Well giving up a Walk, IS better then giving up a hit, and his ego must have lessened throughout his career, because by the 2nd half of his career he had a pretty respectable walk rate.

Mediocre ERA? I mean, he had some up and down years, but he won 2 ERA titles, and was Top 7 in the league 8 different years.

Was also Top 10 in WHIP (hits/walks combined) 9 times, leading the league twice.