FS 1947-48 well made pants jackie robinson - BGS AUTH - UNIQUE

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

But you did buy back the card in the Robert Edwards auction, did you not? Do they know because they now have your Champ Hats Roby. Will you be bidding on that one? Just curious. I know we are in an era in the hobby of anything goes but seems wrong to not call this out and to not put Robert Edwards on notice.

Let me preface this reply by saying I think bums 1953 is hands down one of the top 5 D-Bags on this site. So now that you know how I really feel, I have no problem with someone buying their own card back at auction -- as long as they complete the transaction, and presumably pay the buyer's premium. why not? Its tantamount to putting a reserve on a card, except much more costly (unless the AH charges a BP on the unmet reserve amount, which Heritage does). It is not shill bidding, because the intent is not to make someone pay more, but rather a way of protecting an investment if you believe the card is not selling for what it is worth, or you simply have sellers remorse and do not want to lose the card.

Ryan Hotchkiss

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Let me preface this reply by saying I think bums 1953 is hands down one of the top 5 D-Bags on this site. So now that you know how I really feel, I have no problem with someone buying their own card back at auction -- as long as they complete the transaction, and presumably pay the buyer's premium. why not? Its tantamount to putting a reserve on a card, except much more costly (unless the AH charges a BP on the unmet reserve amount, which Heritage does). It is not shill bidding, because the intent is not to make someone pay more, but rather a way of protecting an investment if you believe the card is not selling for what it is worth, or you simply have sellers remorse and do not want to lose the card.

Ryan Hotchkiss

Your argument is pure semantics. The outcome and purpose are the same - trying to increase your card’s price and, in turn, your net. The purpose behind shill bidding (with a fake account or through an agent) is to increase the card’s hammer price to make more money.

The purpose behind openly bidding on your own card is to increase the card’s hammer price, because you feel it is selling lower than it should - i.e. you won’t make what you feel like you deserve. The only difference is possibly the intent, but the outcome and purpose are the same. This is why AHs allow people to choose a reserve price.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

Your argument is pure semantics. The outcome and purpose are the same - trying to increase your card’s price and, in turn, your net. The purpose behind shill bidding (with a fake account or through an agent) is to increase the card’s hammer price to make more money.

The purpose behind openly bidding on your own card is to increase the card’s hammer price, because you feel it is selling lower than it should - i.e. you won’t make what you feel like you deserve. The only difference is possibly the intent, but the outcome and purpose are the same. This is why AHs allow people to choose a reserve price.

I understand Ryan's point but then the consignor should use a reserve or a high starting bid, which is at least being transparent. We all want as much as we can get if we are selling but maybe an auction is not the way to go then.

In the case of the Well Made Pants item, it was clearly not for sale unless the consignor got some price he had in mind. Given the fact the card was up on eBay and posted on here 2 years prior to being offered in Robert Edwards, and then immediately after the auction ended, suggests the consignor needs to be more realistic.

Do the owners of Robert Edwards even know the card was bought back? If so why are they continuing to do business with this guy who is violating their terms???

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Let me preface this reply by saying I think bums 1953 is hands down one of the top 5 D-Bags on this site. So now that you know how I really feel, I have no problem with someone buying their own card back at auction -- as long as they complete the transaction, and presumably pay the buyer's premium. why not? Its tantamount to putting a reserve on a card, except much more costly (unless the AH charges a BP on the unmet reserve amount, which Heritage does). It is not shill bidding, because the intent is not to make someone pay more, but rather a way of protecting an investment if you believe the card is not selling for what it is worth, or you simply have sellers remorse and do not want to lose the card.

Ryan Hotchkiss

That's not how the government viewed it in the Mastro case.