Beware of Beckett!

[rjackson44]

jesus james 850 cards wow

[Snapolit1]

Waiting over 19 months to get cards back . . . I can't imagine. I just can't.

[Bobbycee]

Ask for your money back ASAP. Send your cards to SGC.

[Rich Klein]

19 months is a long time but in Beckett's defense on charging cards earlier -- let me remind you of the Marx Card debacle earlier this year with PSA

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...or-bankruptcy/

I get the card should be charged closer to when the cards are, you know, graded. But the TPG's have to protect themselves as well and the Marx card story was a heck of a wake up call

Rich

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

19 months is a long time but in Beckett's defense on charging cards earlier -- let me remind you of the Marx Card debacle earlier this year with PSA

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...or-bankruptcy/

I get the card should be charged closer to when the cards are, you know, graded. But the TPG's have to protect themselves as well and the Marx card story was a heck of a wake up call

Rich

The Marx card debacle was on them and NOT PSA. They were the ones accepting money up front and instead of putting it in escrow, they spent it like it was theirs!!! The money WAS NOT theirs!! It was earmarked to go to PSA.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

The Marx card debacle was on them and NOT PSA. They were the ones accepting money up front and instead of putting it in escrow, they spent it like it was theirs!!! The money WAS NOT theirs!! It was earmarked to go to PSA.

Bobby:

With all due respect, even Nat Turner said this was a wake up call for PSA about how to process payments and when to process payments. So it actually was on PSA but going forward a situation such as that would not be on PSA

This is the statement made by PSA after the fact

This is an unfortunate incident and our top priority is protecting the collectors who may have been impacted by the bankruptcy of Marx Cards. We are currently requesting detailed account information from Marx Cards for the impacted orders still at PSA with the expressed goal of returning cards to their rightful owners as soon as possible. We will not be charging customers for the return of their cards, other than shipping. As of yet we have not received payment from Marx Cards to grade the cards in our possession and as a result of this incident, we will be making changes to our group submitter requirements, including a new order upfront deposit and more robust policies around late payments. We will also be requiring all group submitters to bring their accounts current in order to continue service with us. We ask for patience while we sort through this expensive and labor intensive process with the end goal being the return of cards to their rightful owners.

If you have submitted cards to Marx Cards that you believe to be at PSA, please email curielj@collectors.com with “Marx Cards” in the subject line.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Bobby:

With all due respect, even Nat Turner said this was a wake up call for PSA about how to process payments and when to process payments. So it actually was on PSA but going forward a situation such as that would not be on PSA

This is the statement made by PSA after the fact

This is an unfortunate incident and our top priority is protecting the collectors who may have been impacted by the bankruptcy of Marx Cards. We are currently requesting detailed account information from Marx Cards for the impacted orders still at PSA with the expressed goal of returning cards to their rightful owners as soon as possible. We will not be charging customers for the return of their cards, other than shipping. As of yet we have not received payment from Marx Cards to grade the cards in our possession and as a result of this incident, we will be making changes to our group submitter requirements, including a new order upfront deposit and more robust policies around late payments. We will also be requiring all group submitters to bring their accounts current in order to continue service with us. We ask for patience while we sort through this expensive and labor intensive process with the end goal being the return of cards to their rightful owners.

If you have submitted cards to Marx Cards that you believe to be at PSA, please email curielj@collectors.com with “Marx Cards” in the subject line.

Rich, 19 months is too long to hold someone's money. There is no defense for that. It's just wrong.
.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Bobby:

With all due respect, even Nat Turner said this was a wake up call for PSA about how to process payments and when to process payments. So it actually was on PSA but going forward a situation such as that would not be on PSA

This is the statement made by PSA after the fact

This is an unfortunate incident and our top priority is protecting the collectors who may have been impacted by the bankruptcy of Marx Cards. We are currently requesting detailed account information from Marx Cards for the impacted orders still at PSA with the expressed goal of returning cards to their rightful owners as soon as possible. We will not be charging customers for the return of their cards, other than shipping. As of yet we have not received payment from Marx Cards to grade the cards in our possession and as a result of this incident, we will be making changes to our group submitter requirements, including a new order upfront deposit and more robust policies around late payments. We will also be requiring all group submitters to bring their accounts current in order to continue service with us. We ask for patience while we sort through this expensive and labor intensive process with the end goal being the return of cards to their rightful owners.

If you have submitted cards to Marx Cards that you believe to be at PSA, please email curielj@collectors.com with “Marx Cards” in the subject line.

Rich,

This PSA statement seems to indicate they are now looking to simply return ungraded cards to Marx customers, and only charge them a return shipping fee. However, in that Sports Collectors Daily article you earlier provided the link to, it pretty clearly stated in that article that, I quote, "PSA has pledged to complete the process of grading the thousands of cards collectors had sent to Marx at no cost". That reported statement doesn't seem to jive exactly with the PSA one you just posted. So, is the SCD article full of crap or am I misinterpreting something?

In an earlier post I was lauding the now privately owned PSA for doing such a great thing, based on that article, and wondering if the former publicly traded PSA would have been so benevolent. It seems my earlier post and question may now be mute. Hmmmm!

[drcy]

The upfront payment is fine. The 19 months wait is not. That's closing in on two years! I know of the waits in card grading, but in any other industry these delays would result in lawsuits and perhaps even State Attorney General intervention. It's bordering on that this almost isn't a legitimate business model.

[55koufax]

Somehow I missed this Marx debacle....

That said, with all the changes in this industry, bulk rate submissions are history.

Looks like there is an opening for a grading company who is willing to service bulk rate clients.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

19 months is a long time but in Beckett's defense on charging cards earlier -- let me remind you of the Marx Card debacle earlier this year with PSA

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...or-bankruptcy/

I get the card should be charged closer to when the cards are, you know, graded. But the TPG's have to protect themselves as well and the Marx card story was a heck of a wake up call

Rich

Wow! Wasn't aware of this till just now reading that link. As others have noted, Marx was in a sort of fiduciary capacity in that they collected grading fees on behalf of customers, which was never their money. They were also paid their service fees, up front in most cases apparently, which should have been the only money they were using to cover their ongoing costs. So, I would hope that bankruptcy be damned, and that the Marx owner(s) can be held personally liable to some extent for those customer's grading fees they should have never spent.

Probably the way the customer contracts/agreements are worded will be vague enough, or otherwise worded, to get them out of any normal personal liability for the bankrupt company's debts though. This is assuming of course that the company was set up in such a way that it afforded personal liability protection to the owner(s) in the first place.

Regardless, glad to hear that PSA stepped up and will not charge the customers the grading fees they had already paid to Marx. I wonder if the old, publicly held, PSA would have been so generous? A few very well off, private owners getting together to make such an image positive decision is one thing. Getting thousands and thousands of shareholders to think that is the right thing to do is quite another though.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

19 months is a long time but in Beckett's defense on charging cards earlier -- let me remind you of the Marx Card debacle earlier this year with PSA

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...or-bankruptcy/

I get the card should be charged closer to when the cards are, you know, graded. But the TPG's have to protect themselves as well and the Marx card story was a heck of a wake up call

Rich

Wow Rich! Marx must have been doing a lot of skimming.

[Exhibitman]

"Marx, which had been approved by PSA as a group submission outlet, indicated it had taken in over $954,000 in 2020, had $4.4 million in revenue during 2021 but because of its debts, ran out of money in August."

"the company says the suspension of PSA’s lower cost services last year resulted in a disruption of its revenue. After ramping up its business in 2020 including the opening of a storefront, Marx says it “was in so much debt that all revenues were being absorbed by the daily and weekly payments to merchant banks which made loans to the business.”

"In the bankruptcy documents, Marx blamed PSA’s 2021 shutdown of most service levels on much of its troubles, but also cited another business’ failure to pay some $60,000 it was owed and two bookkeepers it hired. In its filing, Marx indicated the bookkeeper paid herself about $50,000 more than the $48,000 per year salary she was supposed to receive. Both of the company’s bookkeepers left their jobs in November of last year. It also says a customer failed to pay a $60,000 debt to the company related to card grading."

So, gross revenue quadrupled but a $110K loss ate the customer money? Suuure. The Marx guys should be going to jail for theft for what they did. Lots of businesses get money from customers in advance. Whether you call it a deposit or a retainer or an advance, it is still money paid in trust for a service. That money should have been there held in a segregated account regardless of the company's financial woes. Instead, it sounds like Marx treated it like a piggy bank and in effect ended up running a ponzi scheme.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

"Marx, which had been approved by PSA as a group submission outlet, indicated it had taken in over $954,000 in 2020, had $4.4 million in revenue during 2021 but because of its debts, ran out of money in August."

"the company says the suspension of PSA’s lower cost services last year resulted in a disruption of its revenue. After ramping up its business in 2020 including the opening of a storefront, Marx says it “was in so much debt that all revenues were being absorbed by the daily and weekly payments to merchant banks which made loans to the business.”

"In the bankruptcy documents, Marx blamed PSA’s 2021 shutdown of most service levels on much of its troubles, but also cited another business’ failure to pay some $60,000 it was owed and two bookkeepers it hired. In its filing, Marx indicated the bookkeeper paid herself about $50,000 more than the $48,000 per year salary she was supposed to receive. Both of the company’s bookkeepers left their jobs in November of last year. It also says a customer failed to pay a $60,000 debt to the company related to card grading."

So, gross revenue quadrupled but a $110K loss ate the customer money? Suuure. The Marx guys should be going to jail for theft for what they did. Lots of businesses get money from customers in advance. Whether you call it a deposit or a retainer or an advance, it is still money paid in trust for a service. That money should have been there held in a segregated account regardless of the company's financial woes. Instead, it sounds like Marx treated it like a piggy bank and in effect ended up running a ponzi scheme.

Adam,

I thought the exact same thing you did. This bankruptcy filing is either due to complete business stupidity, or tantamount to intentional criminal theft, or a combination of both. Otherwise, how after more than quadrupling your business in a single year can you suddenly end up with assets less than $100K, and debts exceeding $1M. There is no major inventory or capital investments required for what they were doing. You could literally run the type of service business from your house/garage if you really had to. So, what were the monies from the debts they incurred used for? This doesn't add up at all.

For one thing, the bookkeeper that paid him/herself the extra $50K, that is embezzlement. I wonder if they pressed charges and are looking to recover at least some of that embezzled money. I would certainly expect the bankruptcy court to ask such a question. And why did they suddenly have to open up a storefront? I don't really think you'd be expecting a steady stream of customers to come walking through the door for this type of service. If so, during the pandemic and all, you're a complete idiot. And the one outfit that stiffed them for $60K, as with the embezzling bookkeeper, I'm fairly certain the bankruptcy court will be interested in the status of that potential claim as well.

I've been involved with businesses and accounting for long enough to know that this Marx bankruptcy stinks to high heaven. Just from the few details put forth in this thread, the situations screams as to the owner(s) or somebody draining money from the Marx company to put them in their current bankrupt position. And yes, I have personal experience over the years dealing with businesses and people that have embezzled or misused funds, or that have run themselves into the ground (and bankruptcy) for stupid and intentional reasons. As I had stated in an earlier post, I would hope the Marx owner(s) can be held to at least some personal liability in this case, if not potentially some criminal charges as well. Unfortunately, the way our legal system is set up, people very often walk away from such bankruptcies with little to no damage or consequences, and no liabilities to themselves personally. Many supposed great business minds seemingly use bankruptcy as an ongoing tool to get, and stay, ahead. All the while damaging and hurting countless other people and businesses, while they walk away virtually unscathed. I just wonder now what the underlying case is with this Marx company, and how that will end up?

[chalupacollects]

[QUOTE=Exhibitman;2212771]"Marx, which had been approved by PSA as a group submission outlet, indicated it had taken in over $954,000 in 2020, had $4.4 million in revenue during 2021 but because of its debts, ran out of money in August."

"the company says the suspension of PSA’s lower cost services last year resulted in a disruption of its revenue. After ramping up its business in 2020 including the opening of a storefront, Marx says it “was in so much debt that all revenues were being absorbed by the daily and weekly payments to merchant banks which made loans to the business.”


There in bold lies the rub. These Marx people were funding their business off of loans secured by their daily credit card receipts. How it works is the processor loans you money off of your daily or monthly average of projected (read future) card dollars processed for a higher rate than something secured and then the card processor pays themselves back on a daily basis by deducting the payment from the daily receipts sent back to Marx. So if you processed $1000 per day and your loan payment is $200 per day. They would fund you $800. It actually can also work on a daily percentage.

That said, once PSA shut down, Marx could not take payments or make payments hence the cash flow problem. At least a good part of it.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

Ask for your money back ASAP. Send your cards to SGC.

He paid $7300. at $8 each for his +850 cards
W/ SGC's $30 cost, it would cost him in excess of $25,500
Either way, its a tough pill to swallow

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

He paid $7300. at $8 each for his +850 cards
W/ SGC's $30 cost, it would cost him in excess of $25,500
Either way, its a tough pill to swallow

+ 1 agreed.

Huge price difference but super long wait

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

He paid $7300. at $8 each for his +850 cards
W/ SGC's $30 cost, it would cost him in excess of $25,500
Either way, its a tough pill to swallow

I know it's difficult, but I'm of the opinion that the OP should just continue to wait even if it's another year before he sees his cards back (after they are graded). The $8/card grading fee is most likely a thing of the past, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's at least $15/card in the future. I completely understand that it's very difficult to continue waiting but hopefully the value of the cards at Beckett has appreciated in the meantime.

[doug.goodman]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

I love the opinion sellers, they are always worth a laugh

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

I love the opinion sellers, they are always worth a laugh

Yep, pretty funny. Perhaps almost as funny as the raw-only sellers...

"My Hank Aaron RC is NM-MT! I'll take $85k for it please."

"But it's not graded. Is there something wrong with it? Why isn't it graded?"

"Grading is a SCAM! That'll be $85k please."

"I love the card, but I just can't offer you graded prices for a raw card, I'm sorry. Best I can do is $4,225."