Vintage GU Bats - Undervalued?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think the issue with GU bats (and jerseys) is that folks aren't really ever sure that the player really did use that bat unless it is photo matched to an actual game, which barely any of them are. If they are not, then you are just trusting some authenticator which are just checking bat records to see if that player used that weight/length, etc, so who knows if some other player used that player's bat in reality. IMHO, that's what is bringing down prices.

True with bats. I've had a few Twin players tell me they used other guys bats, and I owned a couple examples of clear game use (distinctive, identifiable numbers written on knobs) by players other than the names burned on the barrel.

I know nothing about post 1971 jerseys, when the knit era began, and I suspect there could be many shirts since then that were made to pro specs but not GU.

Flannels are a whole different story. When I have a jersey with appropriate use and even fading, correct and complete tagging which often includes: manufacturer tag, wash instructions tag, size tag, set tag, and stitching that often includes players' name, set number, uniform number, I'm pretty confident.

Then when an expert with a table lamp and black light (like Dave Grob - the best in the business) evaluates and says the stitching is correct, the numbers and logos are original and were not replaced, and the shirt matches known exemplars in every respect, I have certainty.

When numbers or logos are replaced on a flannel jersey, for example a number change, there will be evidence of sun fading, or stitch lines, or uneven puckering of the numbers/logos. The thread might be different, or stitching. In short, there are a couple dozen things that have to be exactly right for a jersey to pass such inspection.

Shirts get reused and sent to the minors for later use, after their primary use in the big leagues is complete, but if a shirt is made for a specific player during a specific year, and he was with the club (not traded before the season began) then it's almost certain the shirt was used by him. His number on it, his name possibly on it, made to his size..... It's not at all similar to a guy borrowing another players bat, liking it, and asking to keep it.

And yes, flannel jerseys are way undervalued. Bats too, especially vintage.

[MVSNYC]

For the sake of this conversation, what year (or decade) are we saying Vintage starts?

[gehrig]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

For the sake of this conversation, what year (or decade) are we saying Vintage starts?

I was thinking 1910’s to 1960’s

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Mark17

True with bats. I've had a few Twin players tell me they used other guys bats, and I owned a couple examples of clear game use (distinctive, identifiable numbers written on knobs) by players other than the names burned on the barrel.

I know nothing about post 1971 jerseys, when the knit era began, and I suspect there could be many shirts since then that were made to pro specs but not GU.

Flannels are a whole different story. When I have a jersey with appropriate use and even fading, correct and complete tagging which often includes: manufacturer tag, wash instructions tag, size tag, set tag, and stitching that often includes players' name, set number, uniform number, I'm pretty confident.

Then when an expert with a table lamp and black light (like Dave Grob - the best in the business) evaluates and says the stitching is correct, the numbers and logos are original and were not replaced, and the shirt matches known exemplars in every respect, I have certainty.

When numbers or logos are replaced on a flannel jersey, for example a number change, there will be evidence of sun fading, or stitch lines, or uneven puckering of the numbers/logos. The thread might be different, or stitching. In short, there are a couple dozen things that have to be exactly right for a jersey to pass such inspection.

Shirts get reused and sent to the minors for later use, after their primary use in the big leagues is complete, but if a shirt is made for a specific player during a specific year, and he was with the club (not traded before the season began) then it's almost certain the shirt was used by him. His number on it, his name possibly on it, made to his size..... It's not at all similar to a guy borrowing another players bat, liking it, and asking to keep it.

And yes, flannel jerseys are way undervalued. Bats too, especially vintage.

+1 (on all counts)

[Bpm0014]

As a collector of t206 player game used bats, sometimes I can’t believe how cheap I have found some. I think there is a ton of room for growth in the game used bat market. With a game used bat, it kind of actually takes you back to that era. The player held it. The pitchers he faced. The other dead ball hall of farmers that may have grabbed the bat. The stadiums it’s been in. It’s a really really cool collectible if you think about it!

[Bpm0014]

Every vintage game used bat thread needs a picture!

[sicollector1954]

Now I know where they all went! LOL.

Seriously, I recently had a case where a game used bat was being given a number grade and letter. I was told in a text it would be a 9.5. Then an hour later, I received a second text saying that after an in person examination of the restoration work that was done, it would now be a 9. Makes you wonder if someone took a look at all of the 9.5 outs their of this particular player and decided that maybe there are too many and we better lesson the grade a little. Or that in the restoration work, some of the use disappeared somehow. A lot of power for only a couple of people whom deal with certification letters. Just saying.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by sicollector1954

Now I know where they all went! LOL.

Seriously, I recently had a case where a game used bat was being given a number grade and letter. I was told in a text it would be a 9.5. Then an hour later, I received a second text saying that after an in person examination of the restoration work that was done, it would now be a 9. Makes you wonder if someone took a look at all of the 9.5 outs their of this particular player and decided that maybe there are too many and we better lesson the grade a little. Or that in the restoration work, some of the use disappeared somehow. A lot of power for only a couple of people whom deal with certification letters. Just saying.

The game use of course stayed constant - the repair work must've not been first rate.

My pet peeve regarding bat grading is that they use one grade to evaluate 2 distinctly different things - use by the player the bat was made for, and condition.

I once had a 1964 Frank Robinson bat that was clearly ordered by and used by him. It matched factory orders specifically to that year, it was not the model number used for pro stock, it had his uniform number on the knob written in his usual style, I believe the handle was scored, and so on. The PSA/DNA letter made it clear it was used by Frank.

But...... there were a lot of tiny abrasions and scratches on it, which Taube attributed to kids playing with it after it was cracked and discarded by Frank. Because of these imperfections, it was graded GU 6.5.

What it should've been graded was something like:

Authenticity: GU 10
Condition: GU 5

Personally, I'd rather have a bat with flaws that was definitely used by the player, rather than a nice looking bat with uncertainty as to who used it.

[sicollector1954]

I will not comment on who did the repair work but only say they have been doing this for many years and are considered one of the best in the hobby. In the future, I think I will get a letter and leave the cracks--chips, etc. alone for the next person to fix if in fact I ever decide to part with it.

[bnorth]

Here are about half of my bats. Most are from 1984-2000. I Have only ever owned one vintage(early 1900s) bat and traded it to a fellow member.

In the small area I collect the prices have increased easily 50% over the last 2 years.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Here are about half of my bats. Most are from 1984-2000. I Have only ever owned one vintage(early 1900s) bat and traded it to a fellow member.

In the small area I collect the prices have increased easily 50% over the last 2 years.

Great bat display rack! Did you make it?

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Every vintage game used bat thread needs a picture!

That Lee Harvey Oswald photo is a little out of place!!

[Bpm0014]

Hahaha. True that. It’s a Type I. I collect Type I photos. I just haven’t found a place for it yet.