Heritage & PWCC and the PSA 9 Mays

[BobC]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Well stated Ryan. 2 additional thoughts 1) Did he not use the zoom in feature of HA website. I'll criticize HA website and practices where do, but they do give very high resolution images. 2) Did a PSA 9 Berk Ross Mays really jump from $4400 in May 2020 to $93k in Nov 2021?

What I'd be curious to know is, who is the underbidder who bid that guy up so high? There wasn't just one person willing to go that high and so far over the earlier price. Kind of surprising there would be at least two people willing to go that high anyway, seeing as how it isn't even his rookie year, or considered a mainstream card.

Of course, isn't it also true that under Texas law that employees of an AH are allowed to bid on items being sold by their employer? So, anyone know which AH auctioned off the Mays card in May 2020 for so much less?

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by BobC

What I'd be curious to know is, who is the underbidder who bid that guy up so high? There wasn't just one person willing to go that high and so far over the earlier price. Kind of surprising there would be at least two people willing to go that high anyway, seeing as how it isn't even his rookie year, or considered a mainstream card.

Of course, isn't it also true that under Texas law that employees of an AH are allowed to bid on items being sold by their employer? So, anyone know which AH auctioned off the Mays card in May 2020 for so much less?

Bob, both were HA.

May 2020

Nov 2021

[doug.goodman]

Correcting the mis-worded first sentence in the Dallas morning News story :

Isaac Flatto loves Willie Mays so much that a few months ago he bought a slab and had it sent to PWCC.

Loves Willie Mays my ass.

He cares less about that card than I do about the dump my dog took on our last walk (I at least cared enough to scoop it up and throw it in the trash).

[Bigdaddy]

It's one thing when a TPG slabs a card with a subjective grade that folks may disagree with. In fact that happens all the time when cards are resubmitted hoping for a 'bump'. Or when the grading scale changes over time. If PSA says its a nine, then it is a nine - until they regrade it and assign a new grade. Then it is the new grade.

It's another thing when they certify a card as unaltered (by giving it a numerical grade) or certify that an autograph is authentic and then it is proved otherwise.

Dude bought a nine and that is what he got. Stop yer whining.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Correcting the mis-worded first sentence in the Dallas morning News story :

Isaac Flatto loves Willie Mays so much that a few months ago he bought a slab and had it sent to PWCC.

Loves Willie Mays my ass.

He cares less about that card than I do about the dump my dog took on our last walk (I at least cared enough to scoop it up and throw it in the trash).

I agree with Doug. This guys buys a high grade card and ships it to a vault in another state to avoid taxes. He doesn't sound like any collector I've ever known. Then he complains about the card being overgraded without ever actually holding it? I think that Ryan is right: he got buyers remorse, perhaps because of the high price of the card, and now he's seeking to cancel the transaction.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

What bothers me is this guy going to the Texas attorney general.

Originally Posted by Sean

This guys buys a high grade card and ships it to a vault in another state to avoid taxes.

I'd be curious what the Texas AG thinks about the avoidance of paying Texas state sales taxes.

If I were the Texas AG, I'd tell him to contact the Oregon AG, that's where the card was sent and resides.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

I'd be curious what the Texas AG thinks about the avoidance of paying Texas state sales taxes.

If I were the Texas AG, I'd tell him to contact the Oregon AG, that's where the card was sent and resides.

That's a very good point.

As for the buyer's complaint

[Rich Klein]

Just a note -- he may not even know this but one of the high ranking people in the Texas Attorney General's office is a big-time collector which much knowledge of what goes in this hobby/business.

If he knew that great, if not, there are actually people in the AG office who understand cards

Rich

[BobC]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

I'd be curious what the Texas AG thinks about the avoidance of paying Texas state sales taxes.

If I were the Texas AG, I'd tell him to contact the Oregon AG, that's where the card was sent and resides.

This isn't necessarily a correct statement that Texas sales tax was avoided. The one article I read, out of the different links posted, never indicated what state the buyer, Flatow, lived in. His residence state, if it did have a sales tax, would be the state losing out on the sales tax by having the card sent directly to the PWCC vault in Oregon. It isn't necessarily Texas that lost out on the sales tax on this Mays card then.

Heritage however is based in Texas. So, if there is a perceived violation in fair trade practices by them, you would probably be correct to initially contact some office or department in Texas about it. Just not certain the Texas AG's office is the proper place to start for such a complaint. But Oregon's AG clearly has nothing to do with this in regards to Heritage.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Bob, both were HA.

May 2020

Nov 2021

Thanks, did not know that. Still can't wrap my head around the almost 20X increase in price in such a short time for a Berk Ross card, and how at least two people were thinking the same. I could see a few multiples increase over the earlier price, but 20X?!?!?! Wow!!!

[Yoda]

But, Betsy, how did the card reappear in your greedy little hands after missing for so long? Didn't see anything about that in your statement.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Mantle Berk Ross in 8 went from 16k to 91k in less than a year.

[glynparson]

Yes high grade Berks ross cards exploded over the last year. It wasn’t just this mays. Also Doug how do you know what this man thinks of Willie Mays? Because he has money doesn’t mean he doesn’t love the player. What a judgemental ignorant claim to make. So tired of some of you acting like the arbiters of what makes someone a true collector. In some of your eyes it seems to mean someone who doesn’t know crap that likes to sit in internet chat rooms bitching up a storm. About things they think they know a lot about but in the end are actually rather ignorant.

[SAllen2556]

What bothers me is this guy going to the Texas attorney general. This is why law enforcement doesn't give two shits about people being ripped off in this hobby, in my opinion.

A guy pays nearly 100k for a piece of cardboard, foolishly mails it back to the auction house he purchased it from; things get messed up because of said foolishness, so then he expects the attorney general to get involved? Gimme a break! Who in the attorney general's office could possibly give two shits about this guy and his $93,000 baseball card?

If you can afford that much for a baseball card, hire your own people to straighten it out you numbskull!

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Also Doug how do you know what this man thinks of Willie Mays? Because he has money doesn’t mean he doesn’t love the player. What a judgemental ignorant claim to make. So tired of some of you acting like the arbiters of what makes someone a true collector. In some of your eyes it seems to mean someone who doesn’t know crap that likes to sit in internet chat rooms bitching up a storm. About things they think they know a lot about but in the end are actually rather ignorant.

Sure, he's so in love with Mays and the card, he spent $93k and sent it to a third party reseller to hold for him? He's interested in a potential profit in the slab. He's a true collector of slabs from his favorite player, good for him.

Doug "judgementally bitching up a storm, as the ignorant arbiter of what makes a 'true' collector" Goodman



PS -fu** that guy, and his buyer's remorse.

PPS - Insert smiley face here about my f-bomb