Heritage & PWCC and the PSA 9 Mays

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Notwithstanding the respective issues and foibles of the various players (PSA, Heritage, and PWCC), this sounds like a case of buyer's remorse. According to what I have read: (i) This guy (government worker) buys the card from a Heritage auction for $93k, pays and directs Heritage to send the card to the PWCC Vault, (ii) PWCC receives the card and emails the guy high resolution scans that shows things he does not like, (iii) he demands that Heritage takes the card back and directs PWCC to send to Heritage, which they do, (iv) Heritage says its a PSA 9, as advertised, and to take the matter up with PSA under their grade guaranty, (v) Heritage sends the package back to PWCC unopened, and somewhere along the line the (insured) package was lost and later found, (vi) the card is back in the PWCC Vault, Heritage will not return the money and maintains they sold a PSA 9 Mays, end of story, and to go back to PSA, and the owner is an upset baby who has now talked to the Texas AG and gotten the press involved.

It appears the only one who did anything wrong here is the buyer, who is unhappy he bought an over-graded card.

Well stated Ryan. 2 additional thoughts 1) Did he not use the zoom in feature of HA website. I'll criticize HA website and practices where do, but they do give very high resolution images. 2) Did a PSA 9 Berk Ross Mays really jump from $4400 in May 2020 to $93k in Nov 2021?

[BobbyStrawberry]

From the DMN article:

"PWCC’s logistics coordinator wrote Flatto back last week, saying: “I took a look into this for you to see what is going on and unfortunately, we do not have this package in our possession. The tracking data indicates this was shipped to and delivered to an address that is not ours and has a different ZIP code from our location.”

"The good news is that after The Watchdog started asking questions, magically, the Mays card suddenly reappeared. PWCC staffers told Flatto they found it."

"In a statement emailed to The Watchdog, PWCC co-owner Betsy Huigens blamed Heritage Auctions for sending the card to a bad address and “with no identifying information about the card’s ownership.”

[BobC]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Well stated Ryan. 2 additional thoughts 1) Did he not use the zoom in feature of HA website. I'll criticize HA website and practices where do, but they do give very high resolution images. 2) Did a PSA 9 Berk Ross Mays really jump from $4400 in May 2020 to $93k in Nov 2021?

What I'd be curious to know is, who is the underbidder who bid that guy up so high? There wasn't just one person willing to go that high and so far over the earlier price. Kind of surprising there would be at least two people willing to go that high anyway, seeing as how it isn't even his rookie year, or considered a mainstream card.

Of course, isn't it also true that under Texas law that employees of an AH are allowed to bid on items being sold by their employer? So, anyone know which AH auctioned off the Mays card in May 2020 for so much less?

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by BobC

What I'd be curious to know is, who is the underbidder who bid that guy up so high? There wasn't just one person willing to go that high and so far over the earlier price. Kind of surprising there would be at least two people willing to go that high anyway, seeing as how it isn't even his rookie year, or considered a mainstream card.

Of course, isn't it also true that under Texas law that employees of an AH are allowed to bid on items being sold by their employer? So, anyone know which AH auctioned off the Mays card in May 2020 for so much less?

Bob, both were HA.

May 2020

Nov 2021

[doug.goodman]

Correcting the mis-worded first sentence in the Dallas morning News story :

Isaac Flatto loves Willie Mays so much that a few months ago he bought a slab and had it sent to PWCC.

Loves Willie Mays my ass.

He cares less about that card than I do about the dump my dog took on our last walk (I at least cared enough to scoop it up and throw it in the trash).

[Bigdaddy]

It's one thing when a TPG slabs a card with a subjective grade that folks may disagree with. In fact that happens all the time when cards are resubmitted hoping for a 'bump'. Or when the grading scale changes over time. If PSA says its a nine, then it is a nine - until they regrade it and assign a new grade. Then it is the new grade.

It's another thing when they certify a card as unaltered (by giving it a numerical grade) or certify that an autograph is authentic and then it is proved otherwise.

Dude bought a nine and that is what he got. Stop yer whining.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Correcting the mis-worded first sentence in the Dallas morning News story :

Isaac Flatto loves Willie Mays so much that a few months ago he bought a slab and had it sent to PWCC.

Loves Willie Mays my ass.

He cares less about that card than I do about the dump my dog took on our last walk (I at least cared enough to scoop it up and throw it in the trash).

I agree with Doug. This guys buys a high grade card and ships it to a vault in another state to avoid taxes. He doesn't sound like any collector I've ever known. Then he complains about the card being overgraded without ever actually holding it? I think that Ryan is right: he got buyers remorse, perhaps because of the high price of the card, and now he's seeking to cancel the transaction.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

What bothers me is this guy going to the Texas attorney general.

Originally Posted by Sean

This guys buys a high grade card and ships it to a vault in another state to avoid taxes.

I'd be curious what the Texas AG thinks about the avoidance of paying Texas state sales taxes.

If I were the Texas AG, I'd tell him to contact the Oregon AG, that's where the card was sent and resides.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

I'd be curious what the Texas AG thinks about the avoidance of paying Texas state sales taxes.

If I were the Texas AG, I'd tell him to contact the Oregon AG, that's where the card was sent and resides.

That's a very good point.

As for the buyer's complaint

[BobC]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

I'd be curious what the Texas AG thinks about the avoidance of paying Texas state sales taxes.

If I were the Texas AG, I'd tell him to contact the Oregon AG, that's where the card was sent and resides.

This isn't necessarily a correct statement that Texas sales tax was avoided. The one article I read, out of the different links posted, never indicated what state the buyer, Flatow, lived in. His residence state, if it did have a sales tax, would be the state losing out on the sales tax by having the card sent directly to the PWCC vault in Oregon. It isn't necessarily Texas that lost out on the sales tax on this Mays card then.

Heritage however is based in Texas. So, if there is a perceived violation in fair trade practices by them, you would probably be correct to initially contact some office or department in Texas about it. Just not certain the Texas AG's office is the proper place to start for such a complaint. But Oregon's AG clearly has nothing to do with this in regards to Heritage.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Bob, both were HA.

May 2020

Nov 2021

Thanks, did not know that. Still can't wrap my head around the almost 20X increase in price in such a short time for a Berk Ross card, and how at least two people were thinking the same. I could see a few multiples increase over the earlier price, but 20X?!?!?! Wow!!!

[Yoda]

But, Betsy, how did the card reappear in your greedy little hands after missing for so long? Didn't see anything about that in your statement.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Mantle Berk Ross in 8 went from 16k to 91k in less than a year.

[glynparson]

Yes high grade Berks ross cards exploded over the last year. It wasn’t just this mays. Also Doug how do you know what this man thinks of Willie Mays? Because he has money doesn’t mean he doesn’t love the player. What a judgemental ignorant claim to make. So tired of some of you acting like the arbiters of what makes someone a true collector. In some of your eyes it seems to mean someone who doesn’t know crap that likes to sit in internet chat rooms bitching up a storm. About things they think they know a lot about but in the end are actually rather ignorant.