Ineptness of Authenticators/Graders

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Seems so straightforward and therefore so easy but then the part of getting everyone to agree. LOL. If the assessors of our cards could simply agree two days in a row within a given co, it would be a victory.

I know that CSG and PSA are relying more heavily on AI to assess cards (or at least to pre-screen them) and pretty sure that SGC has their own form of AI, maybe not used as consistently. As that becomes more the norm or is relied on more often, the results of grading will continue to dismay. The AI is simply not up to the task of assessing vintage accurately. Once it points out a flaw, which may or may not be accurate, it is game over.

Chase,

We'll never get everyone to agree, so there will always be problems. Oh well, we'll just have to live with it. LOL

Now as for AI making it hard/impossible to grade cards from different eras by different standards, I don't see a problem. You can still have AI go through and grade all cards from whenever based on a single set of factors and standards, but then depending on what era or set a card was from, you maybe use a different grading curve in determining a specific card's final grade then.

Think of it this way. A 75 year-old grandfather, and his 21 year-old grandson both go to the same doctor for their annual physicals, and he/she pronounces them both in almost perfect (NM) health. But is the 75 year-old grandfather even anywhere close to being in as good overall health and condition as the 21 year-old? Hell no, he's 75 years old for cripessakes!!!

But compared to other 75 year-olds, he's in fantastic (NM) shape. Does that make sense?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by BobC

Chase,

.................

Think of it this way. A 75 year-old grandfather, and his 21 year-old grandson both go to the same doctor for their annual physicals, and he/she pronounces them both in almost perfect (NM) health. But is the 75 year-old grandfather even anywhere close to being in as good overall health and condition as the 21 year-old? Hell no, he's 75 years old for cripessakes!!!

But compared to other 75 year-olds, he's in fantastic (NM) shape. Does that make sense?

Bob, I'll be be 75 in 5 months. I'm glad to know that getting myself a NM evaluation is still possible.

Just don't recommend slabbing me.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Bob, I'll be be 75 in 5 months. I'm glad to know that getting myself a NM evaluation is still possible.

Just don't recommend slabbing me.

LOL

Frank,

I'm with you, and not too far behind you age-wise either as I'm in my late 60s. My youngest song is about to turn 26, and every time he begins complaining about how old and rundown he is and feels now, I just roll my eyes and start laughing. When he starts doing that, I usually just ask him that if he thinks he's so bad off now, what's he going to be doing and saying when he starts getting close to my age. That generally shuts him up! LOL

I try to think of guys like you and me being similar to fine wine............we're not getting older, we're getting better!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Chase,

We'll never get everyone to agree, so there will always be problems. Oh well, we'll just have to live with it. LOL

Now as for AI making it hard/impossible to grade cards from different eras by different standards, I don't see a problem. You can still have AI go through and grade all cards from whenever based on a single set of factors and standards, but then depending on what era or set a card was from, you maybe use a different grading curve in determining a specific card's final grade then.

Think of it this way. A 75 year-old grandfather, and his 21 year-old grandson both go to the same doctor for their annual physicals, and he/she pronounces them both in almost perfect (NM) health. But is the 75 year-old grandfather even anywhere close to being in as good overall health and condition as the 21 year-old? Hell no, he's 75 years old for cripessakes!!!

But compared to other 75 year-olds, he's in fantastic (NM) shape. Does that make sense?

Hey Bob,

I get your point. There was actually a very good thread on here which two forum members participated in who work in the tech field and both stated how far away AI is from being able to grade accurately.

In line with what you are saying, it has been my hunch that there is still a great deal of modern getting graded right now which could be influencing how vintage is seen. When you are looking at pack fresh cards all day long and deciding between a 9 and a 10 and then someone sends in a high end 58 Topps card it might be a 6 comparatively.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Hey Bob,

I get your point. There was actually a very good thread on here which two forum members participated in who work in the tech field and both stated how far away AI is from being able to grade accurately.

In line with what you are saying, it has been my hunch that there is still a great deal of modern getting graded right now which could be influencing how vintage is seen. When you are looking at pack fresh cards all day long and deciding between a 9 and a 10 and then someone sends in a high end 58 Topps card it might be a 6 comparatively.

Hey Chase,

I read those threads as well, and agreed with the authors that AI for actually grading cards was far, far off, if it even ever became a reality. They need so many examples of each individual card to be looked at so they can fine tune the AI before letting it start operating on its own. And for a lot of vintage (especially pre-war) sets, there aren't anywhere near enough known examples of each card in many of them to ever begin to get the AI properly fine tuned so it could accurately function on its own. Which means the human element is still the most important part of the grading process, and likely always will be.

And I concur with your thinking that all the perfect modern cards are possibly getting used as the standard for grading everything else nowadays. But by doing that, the TPGs have effectively changed the way they used to grade most all vintage cards.

So if TPGs took and listened to hobby complaints about them not being standardized and consistent, and that is why they now seem to base their grading standards off today's mostly perfect modern cards, I think they've misunderstood and misinterpreted what most hobbyists meant and really wanted. A card set/issue you started grading 20-30 years ago to be graded the exact same way today as it was back then, regardless of how you now may be grading modern cards. People want to be able to look at a card's Pop Report and know that all the ones graded NM7, are all actually 7s by today's grading standards. They don't want to be guessing how many 7s are actually still 7s, and how many 7s originally graded 20-30 years ago would be something other than a NM7 if re-graded today. That is more the idea of standardized consistency I think most people are looking for.