Willie Mays

[FrankWakefield]

Somewhere, on Net54, I posted something about Mays being the best ballplayer I ever saw play in person. I had not recognized that until I perused Bill James's Historical Baseball Abstract (I still think its best form is the original edition, hardbound). At that point, I reluctantly let go of the idea that it was Stan Musial (seen in one game in 1963 and thereby becoming a lifelong Cardinals fan), and that instead Willie Mays was better. I saw Mays play in the old Sportsman's Park, then the cookie cutter Busch Stadium, and also in Candlestick once. Willie was entertaining along with his greatness. He'd break late and slow on a ball close to him, he seemed to always catch the ball while moving. He could hit, hustle, run bases, drive in runs, he was a force out there. I have a handful of his cards from his playing days. None are mint nor near mint, they're maybe VG-EX... A couple I collected as a kid, I think the rest were gathered after he was voted into the Hall.

George Davis is a subject in the T206's. In the late 1980's I was looking through the T206 lists, and I realized Davis wasn't in the Hall. But to me it seemed like he should be, and that maybe one day he would be. I think I bought 2 of his cards, and then waited. And he got elected!!! I sold one maybe 2 or 3 years later. And then I sold the other a few years later when I sold almost all of my white border cards.

Point is, I've bought cards anticipating someone getting elected into the Hall. But I've not bought any cards anticipating someone would die. I'd not thought about that before, and I'm sure people will buy cards anticipating that, but I don't think I will be doing that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Where's the evidence of this narrowing Mantle Mays gap? Seems in line to me with what it has been for a long time

1965 PSA 8 Mantle last 5

/23/2022 $3,995.00 8 175118348292 eBay mjschillaci Auction 49865113
1/11/2022 $4,516.00 8 363674561810 eBay probstein123 Auction 55018495
9/28/2021 $3,859.20 8 543 Lelands Late Summer Classic 2021 Auction 20094480
8/12/2021 $4,212.75 8 366 Mile High Card Company July/August 2021 Auction Auction 12581809
7/31/2021 $4,301.00 8 144119876379 eBay pwcc_auctions Auction 09074020

1965 PSA 8 Mays last 4
12/12/2021 $1,499.00 8 234332009171 eBay pb19991 Auction 23502925
11/29/2021 $1,246.79 8 265410046760 eBay 4_sharp_corners Auction 06025614
11/25/2021 $1,567.00 8 373794998777 eBay probstein123 Auction 11205557
11/9/2021 $1,619.00 8 384478175189 eBay probstein123 Auction 41747188

[Yoda]

More the gap I was thinking of were cards between !951-3 in exmt and above. The example I used in the current PWCC auction, fresh as it is, was something I had never seen before, 2 RC's, same PSA grade, the same auction. I am sure Mick's card will top Willie's by auction end but an interesting moment, nonetheless

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Yoda

More the gap I was thinking of were cards between !951-3 in exmt and above. The example I used in the current PWCC auction, fresh as it is, was something I had never seen before, 2 RC's, same PSA grade, the same auction. I am sure Mick's card will top Willie's by auction end but an interesting moment, nonetheless

The fact that you're picking their rookie and earliest year cards, and in a very high condition, is exactly the kind of cards the flippers and investors normally go for. And because of that, and I hate to say it, but Jollyelm may be right on the money and there is possibly a deathwatch on Willie Mays, with people just waiting to take advantage of his passing so they can dump his cards at a big profit. Or it could be people anticipating the rise in the value of his cards when he passes, so they're possibly looking to buy them now before prices go up even more.

Either case, it may have a lot to do with his age and remaining life expectancy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

The fact that you're picking their rookie and earliest year cards, and in a very high condition, is exactly the kind of cards the flippers and investors normally go for. And because of that, and I hate to say it, but Jollyelm may be right on the money and there is possibly a deathwatch on Willie Mays, with people just waiting to take advantage of his passing so they can dump his cards at a big profit. Or it could be people anticipating the rise in the value of his cards when he passes, so they're possibly looking to buy them now before prices go up even more.

Either case, it may have a lot to do with his age and remaining life expectancy.

Isn't the fact that he is not going to live forever already priced in? I mean who is going to say, damn, he really died, now I need his rookie card?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Isn't the fact that he is not going to live forever already priced in? I mean who is going to say, damn, he really died, now I need his rookie card?

Well, you and I may think that, but don't forget we're now dealing with a lot of younger flippers/investors who are looking for even the slightest advantage, like a hot stock tip. And what are you doing being a bit contrarian with me? You know as well as I do there are always going to be some people coming out of the woodwork when something good or bad happens to famous people/athletes. Just like when someone pretty much everyone knows is a lock for the HOF, you expect their cards to have already been priced at their HOF level long before they ever actually get in. And yet, when the actual election occurs and their induction is confirmed, you still always seem to see a jump in interest and price for the cards/items. Human nature in that there will always be people who need that trigger, like someone's passing, to re-create interest in that person. LOL. Just the way it is.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Isn't the fact that he is not going to live forever already priced in? I mean who is going to say, damn, he really died, now I need his rookie card?

+1 !

[Yoda]

Bob, I have to agree on all points and it just makes me sad that there is a segment of the hobby that is on sort of a death vigil for Willie. My point in making the post was that in the early going of the PWCC horserace of RC's that Mays has a 2 length lead, something I have never seen before.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Bob, I have to agree on all points and it just makes me sad that there is a segment of the hobby that is on sort of a death vigil for Willie. My point in making the post was that in the early going of the PWCC horserace of RC's that Mays has a 2 length lead, something I have never seen before.

John,

Definitely agree, but we both know how people can be when it comes to making a buck. A lot of them will do anything, including taking advantage of someone's passing and the sentiment and memories it evokes in others. It turns out to be one of our not so admirable human natures, but it is what it is.

[Smarti5051]

It could also be possible that the recent deaths of Kobe and Aaron, and the immediate skyrocketing of their rookie cards has caused Mays collectors to accelerate their rookie grail card plans for fears of being priced out completely in the event of his death. It only takes 10-30 newly motivated buyers to dramatically change the landscape for high-end vintage cards. My grail card, the Joe Jackson Cracker Jack, has gone from "I will plan to save up for a nice PSA 4 in a couple years" card to a "can I tolerate a BVG "authentic" poster cut/blank back with 15% of the right side missing" question. I imagine there are many Mays collectors that see a hole where the 51/52 issues are supposed to go that feel like their options might be slipping away if they don't act now and outbid the competition.

[lowpopper]

True, it feels like the gap is closing but the data does seem to show mantle and mays are acquiring value proportionately