Who are your Inner Circle Hall of Famers?

[ClementeFanOh]

Sean- right. I was talking about increasing card values, which you mentioned
in the original post. The reason I think Ryan is interesting is that, through
card values alone, he's been a recent steady climber. The others have been
decades long climbers. Just talking about card values. Trent King

[skelly423]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Sean- right. I was talking about increasing card values, which you mentioned
in the original post. The reason I think Ryan is interesting is that, through
card values alone, he's been a recent steady climber. The others have been
decades long climbers. Just talking about card values. Trent King

I wasn't intending to go in this direction, but it's an interesting corollary. Strictly from a card collecting perspective, you're 100% correct to include him as an inner circle guy. Excluding rookies and error cards, he's the most expensive card in almost every set he appears in. That's doubly impressive when you consider he's a pitcher, and they always to lag behind hitters when it comes to value.

[ClementeFanOh]

Sean- yes indeed. Nolan's not my favorite, but he was the man. "The Express".
I'll never forget him showing Robin Ventura why it's not smart to charge the
mound Trent King

[darwinbulldog]

I presume betting with the current hobby consensus is a pretty bad strategy for ROI. If you could predict which players will be considered much better a generation from now than they currently are, that's the real trick. But if you're asking me who the best players ever were? Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, and Roger Clemens.

[jingram058]

Opinions only when it comes to these questions.

For me, Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Williams, Koufax are the innner circle all-time greatest, whose cards I value over all the others. IMO, after about 1970, no one can carry these guys' jock straps. Baseball went straight to Hell from that point on. In my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by skelly423

I wasn't intending to go in this direction, but it's an interesting corollary. Strictly from a card collecting perspective, you're 100% correct to include him as an inner circle guy. Excluding rookies and error cards, he's the most expensive card in almost every set he appears in. That's doubly impressive when you consider he's a pitcher, and they always to lag behind hitters when it comes to value.

Mantle and Ryan and Jackie are always going to have relatively higher card values. I would argue Clemente too. Not to detract from any of their greatness as players, just a relative point.

[Exhibitman]

Bonds, Ruth and Williams are the three best hitters in history (yes, I know Bonds isn't in the HOF, just saying) so Teddy Ballgame is an automatic for me. I'd say the no-brainers are

Position Players:

Ruth
Gehrig
Foxx
Williams
Musial
Aaron
Mays
Henderson
Hornsby
Collins
Lajoie
Wagner
Schmidt
Bench
Berra
Robinson: Jackie and Frank
Morgan
Cobb
Mantle
Ott
Speaker
Brett

Pitchers:
Johnson: Walter and Randy
Spahn
Grove
Mathewson
Young
Alexander
Seaver
Carlton
Maddux
Gibson
Rivera

I've probably forgotten a few.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Bonds, Ruth and Williams are the three best hitters in history (yes, I know Bonds isn't in the HOF, just saying) so Teddy Ballgame is an automatic for me. I'd say the no-brainers are

Position Players:

Ruth
Gehrig
Foxx
Williams
Musial
Aaron
Mays
Henderson
Hornsby
Collins
Lajoie
Wagner
Schmidt
Bench
Berra
Robinson: Jackie and Frank
Morgan
Cobb
Mantle
Ott
Speaker
Brett

Pitchers:
Johnson: Walter and Randy
Spahn
Grove
Mathewson
Young
Alexander
Seaver
Carlton
Maddux
Gibson
Rivera

I've probably forgotten a few.

I'm in almost complete alignment with these names, and appreciate the work put into it (although I suspect Adam just rattled them off the top of his head).

I would change just one player from each...

* Replace Henderson with DiMaggio, Greenberg or Griffey Jr.
* Replace Rivera with Walsh, Plank or Hubbell

Just my meager .02

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Bonds, Ruth and Williams are the three best hitters in history (yes, I know Bonds isn't in the HOF, just saying) so Teddy Ballgame is an automatic for me. I'd say the no-brainers are

Position Players:

Ruth
Gehrig
Foxx
Williams
Musial
Aaron
Mays
Henderson
Hornsby
Collins
Lajoie
Wagner
Schmidt
Bench
Berra
Robinson: Jackie and Frank
Morgan
Cobb
Mantle
Ott
Speaker
Brett

Pitchers:
Johnson: Walter and Randy
Spahn
Grove
Mathewson
Young
Alexander
Seaver
Carlton
Maddux
Gibson
Rivera

I've probably forgotten a few.

Assuming you're excluding consensus steroid types, I would add Pujols and Griffey to this list, F. Robinson as already mentioned, and possibly Clemente and Kershaw.

[frankbmd]

Maranville, not the small village in France, the shortstop.

[Shoeless Moe]

Luca Doncic

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Assuming you're excluding consensus steroid types, I would add Pujols and Griffey to this list, F. Robinson as already mentioned, and possibly Clemente and Kershaw.

if you put Kershaw in there we will have to create a DL.

DiMaggio, Griffey and Plank are top-tier. Pujols is not eligible yet. I forgot about King Carl and I collect him. D'oh! Sorry about that, your majesty.



ETA: heh, that's exactly what I did, Mark.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ah I was thinking all time greats so was premature on a couple of the additions. Nice Hubbell, that's a work of art.

[FrankWakefield]

Robinson...

The one with a WAR over 100, with almost 3000 hits, and almost 600 home runs?

I think you guys are talking about the one with a WAR just over 60, with just over 1500 hits and just under 150 home runs....

Jackie was a gentleman (not that Frank wasn't), well educated, and the right man for Rickey's integration movement. Jackie went through hell. But that's not to say that Frank Robinson didn't. Frank about doubled the baseball results that Jackie did. They're both HOFers, but if one of them is gonna be in the inner circle I'd lean toward that being Frank.

Wagner, W Johnson, Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Hornsby, Mathewson, C Young, E Collins. Williams, Mays, Musial, Ott, Foxx, Spahn, Speaker, Lajoie, and Old Pete Alexander.

Tempting to add McGraw, he was everything. Much of it was long ago and not remembered.

Someone who gets no love in all of these comparisons is Eddie Collins. A third of his At Bats resulted in hits. Add for consideration 1499 walks. He was a hitting, walking, base stealing, run scoring, fielding machine. All time leader in sacrafice hits. He was a White Sox good guy when the Black Sox were throwing the World Series; more people would remember him if he'd been among the Black Sox.

[Rhotchkiss]

Wagner is absolutely inner circle. He was the greatest player of his age and one of the inaugural 5 inducted into the HOF. He is much much more than a good player with a baseball card. And, I think Joe Jackson is deep “inner circle” re cards, even though he is not an HOFer

With respect to Pre-War (WWII), I think these are your top tier, and almost every iconic/most expensive card contains one of these people

Ruth
Cobb
Jackson
Wagner
Mathewson
Johnson
Gehrig
Young
DiMaggio (goes into vintage)
Williams (goes into vintage)

[G1911]

I would agree with McGraw, Eddie Collins too. Collins continues to get respect far below his statistical performance.

Robinson, Clemente and Ryan are hobby inner circle, but not performance inner circle. Clemente has almost the same statistical value as his contemporary Al Kaline. Obvious HOFer but nobody wants to put him in the inner circle.

Jackie ends up being overrated and underrated at the same time somehow. He’s not the best 2B of all time, but he’s probably like 7-12 off resume, an obvious statistical hall of famer but his actual performance is rarely discussed and the focus almost solely put on being a historical first instead.