SGC - New in 2022

[Johnny630]

Hopefully their announcement will be that they will be grading at the National This Year. I was very disappointed they didn’t grade at Last Years National in Chicago.

[Joe Hunter]

I had pretty much used PSA for card grading in the past, but sent my 2nd submission to SGC in December. Generally, I was pretty satisfied with the turnaround time and I thought the grading was accurate. However, I did have one card that appeared to be damaged in the process of incapsulation. I tried to contact them by both email and phone but no response. That was at least 3 weeks ago. So, better communication would be my #1 goal for SGC in 2022.

[Directly]

I was contemplating posting a SCG 3 T205 Cobb on the B/S/T forum but if it not worth the price of a PSA 3, I'll keep it--

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Directly

I was contemplating posting a SCG 3 T205 Cobb on the B/S/T forum but if it not worth the price of a PSA 3, I'll keep it--

Who says it's not? I'd LOVE to see a pic or 2 and a price, you might just surprise yourself.

Thanks~!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Who says it's not? I'd LOVE to see a pic or 2 and a price, you might just surprise yourself.

Thanks~!

PSA just brings more money. I hope SGC hires some experienced graders so they don't keep making mistakes.
.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Hopefully their announcement will be that they will be grading at the National This Year. I was very disappointed they didn’t grade at Last Years National in Chicago.

Concur, they really dropped the ball on that last year.

People come to the National to buy sell and grade cards. Why a major grading company wouldn’t be there is beyond me? Let’s hope they learned a lesson.

[Zan]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Concur, they really dropped the ball on that last year.

People come to the National to buy sell and grade cards. Why a major grading company wouldn’t be there is beyond me? Let’s hope they learned a lesson.

Totally agree. Spoke at length with Peter regarding this and he defended his position tooth and nail like his life depended on it.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by leon

psa just brings more money. I hope sgc hires some experienced graders so they don't keep making mistakes.
.

+100

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Leon

I hope SGC hires some experienced graders so they don't keep making mistakes.
.

Wity respect to PSA, that’s the pot calling the kettle black.

They both/all screw up - more than they should - but to me PSA messes up way more and more egregiously and their grading is totally inconsistent, both currently and current compared to past.

Never get cheated! (Unless you are trying to get obvious reprints graded as authentic)

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Zan

Totally agree. Spoke at length with Peter regarding this and he defended his position tooth and nail like his life depended on it.

Brian, what was his reasoning behind it?

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Do folks feel SGC is grading vintage differently now? Perhaps more strictly than in times past?

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Dead-Ball-Hitter

Do folks feel SGC is grading vintage differently now? Perhaps more strictly than in times past?

Not just vintage. I think they have tightened their entire grading process. I’ll find out just how much in 45-50 days. They just received 6 cards from me yesterday.

[Bobsbats]

IMO, both PSA and SGC should change their grading write up criteria. When was the last time you saw anything graded with a crease at a 3? The write ups on a "4" are listed below from SGC
4

QUALITY
VG/EX

DESCRIPTION
85/15 or better centering, corners are slightly rounded with modest surface wear. Light hairline crease may show on one or both sides. A light tear or surface break may exist.
When was the last time you saw this grading as a 4?

PSA states a light crease may be present on a PSA 4.....on a PSA 4? That type of grading hasn't happened since the 90's.

I hope they grade cards based on their own standards soon.

Bob

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Bobsbats

IMO, both PSA and SGC should change their grading write up criteria. When was the last time you saw anything graded with a crease at a 3? The write ups on a "4" are listed below from SGC
4

QUALITY
VG/EX

DESCRIPTION
85/15 or better centering, corners are slightly rounded with modest surface wear. Light hairline crease may show on one or both sides. A light tear or surface break may exist.
When was the last time you saw this grading as a 4?

PSA states a light crease may be present on a PSA 4.....on a PSA 4? That type of grading hasn't happened since the 90's.

I hope they grade cards based on their own standards soon.

Bob

One of the biggest problems in this hobby is that no TPG should have been allowed to determine their own grading standards, and then go even further and to then change them as they saw fit over time. One single set of agreed upon standards should have been set by the people in the hobby, and the TPGs should have had to seek approval and accreditation from whatever group spoke for the people in the hobby. Not the TPGs, not the dealers, and not the people/companies originally printing out price guides and other hobby publications years ago that often included their ideas of what the grading standards should be. And each and every TPG certified and accredited by the overriding hobby group setting the standards should have to adhere to those standards, be transparent in all they do in regards to grading (in other words, when a customer paying for grading asks why a card got a lower grade than expected, they should be given a complete, full answer), certainly not be able to charge grading fees based on a contingent percentage of a card's perceived value (doing so can cause the grading service to not be viewed as independent and unbiased, and it should take about the same time and effort to grade a '52 Topps Mantle as it does to grade an '87 Topps common, so why the difference in grading fees), and also be required to undergo some type of independent, periodic, third-party review of their grading, and if found to be deficient, their certification as an approved TPG should be subject to suspension, or even forfeiture.

It is too late though, as the TPGs have control of the hobby (with too many people now having too much value tied up in certain TPG slabs to ever want to go against them), basically call the shots, charge what they want, and decide what is what.

And as far as TPGs hiring more graders, exactly what experience do these new graders have to start, probably none. So who then is training them, and exactly how and what are they being trained to do? For all the errors and mistakes, and the uncaught alterations, in TPG slabbed cards that continually seem to keep turning up in our hobby, maybe it is about time the TPGs get held to some accountable standard, and start explaining how they go about performing their selection and training of graders, and exactly how they do what they're doing as far as grading. It sure as hell isn't like any of them have something akin to a proprietary grading technique or trade secret, like Coca-Cola's formula or KFC's fried chicken recipe, that could or should allow them to keep from their paying customers exactly what it is they're doing. .

[YankeeHotelFoxtrot]

Accurate grading? Compared with the other two of the BIG 3, SGC is by far the most accurate.

Faster turnaround time? They are faster than any grading company out there. There were a few months last year when I was getting my cards back in two weeks.

Not sure what MORE SGC could do on those two points.

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I guess details to follow and the great things to come.

Kind of like a teaser.

Hopefully the basics would be nice

1. Accurate grading
2. Faster turnaround time
3. New lower tier pricing for grading
4. Improved communication
5. Easier access to customer service

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by YankeeHotelFoxtrot

Accurate grading? Compared with the other two of the BIG 3, SGC is by far the most accurate.

Faster turnaround time? They are faster than any grading company out there. There were a few months last year when I was getting my cards back in two weeks.

Not sure what MORE SGC could do on those two points.

+1 Plus, SGC slabbed cards look far nicer.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by BobC

One of the biggest problems in this hobby is that no TPG should have been allowed to determine their own grading standards, and then go even further and to then change them as they saw fit over time. One single set of agreed upon standards should have been set by the people in the hobby, and the TPGs should have had to seek approval and accreditation from whatever group spoke for the people in the hobby. Not the TPGs, not the dealers, and not the people/companies originally printing out price guides and other hobby publications years ago that often included their ideas of what the grading standards should be. And each and every TPG certified and accredited by the overriding hobby group setting the standards should have to adhere to those standards, be transparent in all they do in regards to grading (in other words, when a customer paying for grading asks why a card got a lower grade than expected, they should be given a complete, full answer), certainly not be able to charge grading fees based on a contingent percentage of a card's perceived value (doing so can cause the grading service to not be viewed as independent and unbiased, and it should take about the same time and effort to grade a '52 Topps Mantle as it does to grade an '87 Topps common, so why the difference in grading fees), and also be required to undergo some type of independent, periodic, third-party review of their grading, and if found to be deficient, their certification as an approved TPG should be subject to suspension, or even forfeiture.

It is too late though, as the TPGs have control of the hobby (with too many people now having too much value tied up in certain TPG slabs to ever want to go against them), basically call the shots, charge what they want, and decide what is what.

And as far as TPGs hiring more graders, exactly what experience do these new graders have to start, probably none. So who then is training them, and exactly how and what are they being trained to do? For all the errors and mistakes, and the uncaught alterations, in TPG slabbed cards that continually seem to keep turning up in our hobby, maybe it is about time the TPGs get held to some accountable standard, and start explaining how they go about performing their selection and training of graders, and exactly how they do what they're doing as far as grading. It sure as hell isn't like any of them have something akin to a proprietary grading technique or trade secret, like Coca-Cola's formula or KFC's fried chicken recipe, that could or should allow them to keep from their paying customers exactly what it is they're doing. .

SGC went looking for graders by putting out a want ad in the newspapers.

[Zan]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Brian, what was his reasoning behind it?

He was adamant that if they accepted submissions at the National that they would fall behind in Florida. He was so concerned with protecting turnaround times (which have increased since the National) that they were willing to sacrifice new business. Bold statement and position, some argued it was the responsible thing to do...

[Bobsbats]

Originally Posted by BobC

One of the biggest problems in this hobby is that no TPG should have been allowed to determine their own grading standards, and then go even further and to then change them as they saw fit over time. One single set of agreed upon standards should have been set by the people in the hobby, and the TPGs should have had to seek approval and accreditation from whatever group spoke for the people in the hobby. Not the TPGs, not the dealers, and not the people/companies originally printing out price guides and other hobby publications years ago that often included their ideas of what the grading standards should be. And each and every TPG certified and accredited by the overriding hobby group setting the standards should have to adhere to those standards, be transparent in all they do in regards to grading (in other words, when a customer paying for grading asks why a card got a lower grade than expected, they should be given a complete, full answer), certainly not be able to charge grading fees based on a contingent percentage of a card's perceived value (doing so can cause the grading service to not be viewed as independent and unbiased, and it should take about the same time and effort to grade a '52 Topps Mantle as it does to grade an '87 Topps common, so why the difference in grading fees), and also be required to undergo some type of independent, periodic, third-party review of their grading, and if found to be deficient, their certification as an approved TPG should be subject to suspension, or even forfeiture.

It is too late though, as the TPGs have control of the hobby (with too many people now having too much value tied up in certain TPG slabs to ever want to go against them), basically call the shots, charge what they want, and decide what is what.

And as far as TPGs hiring more graders, exactly what experience do these new graders have to start, probably none. So who then is training them, and exactly how and what are they being trained to do? For all the errors and mistakes, and the uncaught alterations, in TPG slabbed cards that continually seem to keep turning up in our hobby, maybe it is about time the TPGs get held to some accountable standard, and start explaining how they go about performing their selection and training of graders, and exactly how they do what they're doing as far as grading. It sure as hell isn't like any of them have something akin to a proprietary grading technique or trade secret, like Coca-Cola's formula or KFC's fried chicken recipe, that could or should allow them to keep from their paying customers exactly what it is they're doing. .

Bob,
I agree completely. It's a shame that horse has left the barn and now it's a roll of the dice as to what is coming back from the TPG.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by cammb

SGC went looking for graders by putting out a want ad in the newspapers.

Intelligent people still read newspapers thank god!

Smart move regardless of your point.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Zan

He was adamant that if they accepted submissions at the National that they would fall behind in Florida. He was so concerned with protecting turnaround times (which have increased since the National) that they were willing to sacrifice new business. Bold statement and position, some argued it was the responsible thing to do...

Yes they have increased from about a 2 week turnaround to about 1 month inclusive. Still about a year faster than the #2 and #3 companies!

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Zan

He was adamant that if they accepted submissions at the National that they would fall behind in Florida. He was so concerned with protecting turnaround times (which have increased since the National) that they were willing to sacrifice new business. Bold statement and position, some argued it was the responsible thing to do...

I could care less if they accept take home submission I want them to grade on site and on site only, that's it. Is that to much to ask from a grading company?

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Mark17

+1 Plus, SGC slabbed cards look far nicer.

Totally agree. Smart money also agrees!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by cammb

SGC went looking for graders by putting out a want ad in the newspapers.

LOL

Were they at least asking for people with some experience? Actually, that may be a smart, calculated move on their part. If you think about it, it's pretty much only going to be old people still reading the newspaper, so maybe by advertising there they might actually come across some older, experienced collectors that already know what they're looking at.

I'd still be very curious and interested to see and read what materials and such they then use to train these graders. And they must have a documented set of standards they are all supposed to be working off of in coming up with the numerical grades they do. Why isn't that made available to the public, instead of treating it like some big secret? There is no good, logical reason for any TPG to not share that with the people paying them for their grading services. The one main thing/reason I can think of for TPGs not wanting to share that information with the public is if they did so, everyone will begin seeing and pointing out all the grading mistakes, inconsistencies and errors these TPGs turn out on a daily basis.

[swarmee]

1880snonsports is right down the road and has a ton of experience.

[Zan]

Heard the news through an SGC group.

Bulk sub prices are dropping from $25/card to $24/card

A $50/card 5 day submission is being implemented. Not sure how this will conflict with their service that takes 1-2 days, imo it pretty much makes it obsolete.

Idk, not that's excited about this one

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

Were they at least asking for people with some experience? Actually, that may be a smart, calculated move on their part. If you think about it, it's pretty much only going to be old people still reading the newspaper, so maybe by advertising there they might actually come across some older, experienced collectors that already know what they're looking at.

I'd still be very curious and interested to see and read what materials and such they then use to train these graders. And they must have a documented set of standards they are all supposed to be working off of in coming up with the numerical grades they do. Why isn't that made available to the public, instead of treating it like some big secret? There is no good, logical reason for any TPG to not share that with the people paying them for their grading services. The one main thing/reason I can think of for TPGs not wanting to share that information with the public is if they did so, everyone will begin seeing and pointing out all the grading mistakes, inconsistencies and errors these TPGs turn out on a daily basis.

I do agree that TPG is incredibly inconsistent, and that's an understatement, but SGC does have "loose" grading standards made public here:

https://www.gosgc.com/card-grading/submissions

[butchie_t]

Looks as though SGC is updating their site with the changes. 2 new tiers in addition to the standard one. And they have dropped down to ~25 days again on their standard turn around.

They are also providing high-res pictures of the front and back of any recent graded cards when one goes to validate the cert number.

If it does not show up when you go to the site. Refresh the site and you should see the new information.

B.T.

[Dandor]

I love the cert look-up with high quality images. It is great for SGC transparency and makes me more confident buying slabs on eBay. The multiple tiers are confusing. With SGC's already quick turnaround times, it is silly to pay double or more. Hopefully we start to see cheaper prices with SGC grading. Once we get into the $15 range, I have a bunch of cards I will be sending into them. Right now, I am just waiting things out.

[vthobby]

No holiday or New Years delay here:


They got my batch on: 12-30-21

Got my grades today: 01-24-22

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Zan

Heard the news through an SGC group.

Bulk sub prices are dropping from $25/card to $24/card

A $50/card 5 day submission is being implemented. Not sure how this will conflict with their service that takes 1-2 days, imo it pretty much makes it obsolete.

Idk, not that's excited about this one

A $50/card 5 day submission is being implemented. This one intrigues me and how much action they get. The knock on grading companies recently is turnaround times.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

A $50/card 5 day submission is being implemented. This one intrigues me and how much action they get. The knock on grading companies recently is turnaround times.

Makes sense that they did this. The difference in turnaround time was not worth the $220 per card price difference, imo.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by YankeeHotelFoxtrot

Accurate grading? Compared with the other two of the BIG 3, SGC is by far the most accurate.

Just curious, did you notice they went literally from NOT including centering in their grade to using centering as one of the dominant factors in grading?

I just cant see how that's accurate grading. It's an opinion anyhow, but they've changed how they do opine, mind you without telling anyone, their entire method.

[vthobby]

Less than 30 days and $30 each! Amazing as always!

IMG_4841.jpg

IMG_4842a.jpg

IMG_4843b.jpg

IMG_4844c.jpg

[npa589]

On the topic of people wondering if SGC has employed stricter standards towards vintage - here are two I just got back from SGC. Bought them about 7 years ago raw on eBay, and just got them graded. Can you guess their grades?

[swarmee]

5.5 and 6

[T205 GB]

Hopefully they go bankrupt this year

[Marslife]

6 and a TRM

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by BobC

One of the biggest problems in this hobby is that no TPG should have been allowed to determine their own grading standards, and then go even further and to then change them as they saw fit over time. One single set of agreed upon standards should have been set by the people in the hobby, and the TPGs should have had to seek approval and accreditation from whatever group spoke for the people in the hobby. Not the TPGs, not the dealers, and not the people/companies originally printing out price guides and other hobby publications years ago that often included their ideas of what the grading standards should be. And each and every TPG certified and accredited by the overriding hobby group setting the standards should have to adhere to those standards, be transparent in all they do in regards to grading (in other words, when a customer paying for grading asks why a card got a lower grade than expected, they should be given a complete, full answer), certainly not be able to charge grading fees based on a contingent percentage of a card's perceived value (doing so can cause the grading service to not be viewed as independent and unbiased, and it should take about the same time and effort to grade a '52 Topps Mantle as it does to grade an '87 Topps common, so why the difference in grading fees), and also be required to undergo some type of independent, periodic, third-party review of their grading, and if found to be deficient, their certification as an approved TPG should be subject to suspension, or even forfeiture.

Our great country started eerily similar to this description and..... well you know that all went.

[npa589]

I was actually very confident they weren't trimmed once I got them in hand a long time ago.

I don't know the answer to if it's stricter or not. I understand arguments both for and against slightly easier standards for a 1909 T206 card as well, given limited printing capabilities of the time inhabitance in a pack of tobacco.

I thought the Schlei could have graded even higher to be honest.