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Where was the outrage for the other players who failed in 2003 and are still being kept out of the hall? Ortiz’s actions are now “courageous” while every other roider is still a cheater? When these are the arguments to try and justify the obvious, you know there’s no logical counterpoint.
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Wasn't Pedro on the list?
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I watched Pedro give an interview when he was trying to sell his book. He openly admitted he and the entire team was on PEDs. It was hilarious because the interviewer was doing everything he could to get Pedro to STFU. Pedro just kept running his mouth about a specific time when the whole team took PEDs together before a playoff game.
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-27-2022 at 11:46 AM. |
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Where is this video of Pedro admitting to use?
His name, as far as I can tell, was on a 2003 list that appeared on the internet with no sourcing or validation, not the apparently valid leak to the Times that Ortiz’ test became known from. Can sourcing for these allegations be shared? |
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EDIT: To add, I don't care if he did PEDs I just don't like that he got in and arguably the GOAT pitcher and one of the best offensive players off all time didn't. Hell I think PEDs should be mandatory as it was a much better game when they didn't have to hide it and do untested PEDs that don't show up in tests like they do now. Last edited by bnorth; 01-27-2022 at 12:38 PM. |
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So, while promoting his book in which he vehemently denied taking PEDs, he did an interview admitting he took PEDs? That makes no sense.
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Ok, since you must have inside info-
Failed in what way? For what substance? The testing was done by who? And since we know it didn't follow internationally standard protocols, how was it done? Methodology? protection of chain of custody? Anyone can be an anonymous source, but to me they are not credible if they don't have that sort of information. |
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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I heard a Papi supporter claim it was all Fenway Park effect. lol
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My favorite was when one supporter said that huge mound of muscle was a dad bod.
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I read some article the other day that mentioned something about the Twins stadium at the time and the park playing a factor as well with him. Something about him always trying to pull the ball to hit a home run instead of using the whole field or something and that the dimensions for Fenway made it easier for him to use the whole field/hit home runs. I don't remember the details on that though but that was the general idea. |
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Doesn't this all really boil down to Bonds, Clemens and others not being really friendly with the press and the amount of deception with the players (look at Palmeiro, great example of deception).
I bet if Bonds wasn't such a dick with the press and he was a "darling" of the press, then he'd be in. The guy was a MONSTER for the Giants. Incredible numbers and look at the respect/fear they had for him when they gave him 120 free intentional passes (and a total of 232 BB) in 2004. Papi = nice guy = HOF induction. Who'd you rather have on your team? A-Rod or Papi? Papi = in HOF A-Rod = less than 50% of the required votes for HOF
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Last edited by Tabe; 01-27-2022 at 03:05 PM. |
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Off topic like several posts. Since Alex played a little more than half his career at 3B. Career wise is he considered a shortstop or third baseman? If third baseman were does he fit on the all time best list for third basemen? Top 3 are easy with Mike Schmidt first. Wade Boggs and Eddie Mathews are second and third with no wrong order for those 2 legends. With only half his career at third I can't see Alex ahead of those 3. |
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-27-2022 at 04:54 PM. |
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This is all about the elasticity of the Character Clause. If Bonds and Clemens were as "liked" as Ortiz they would be in by now. And if Sosa's likability was what it was before 2004 he would be in by now. Same with Schilling before he went from being a paragon to a pariah. (I wouldn't want Schilling to speak from behind the podium at a HOF induction so I get it by now)
None of these guys -- Bonds, Clemens, Schilling or Sosa -- made in ten years. Now it gets even less transparent. They go to the "appellate" committee composed of an ever-changing group of former players/managers/owners. Unfortunately this is often just a smaller group of people that selects those players that they "like." |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUrg...ustoP%C3%A9rez
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Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
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https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...rtizda01.shtml
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-27-2022 at 07:51 PM. |
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Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards Last edited by slidekellyslide; 01-27-2022 at 07:56 PM. |
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7 years in? You may be right but remind me of some examples. I just remember Puckett having literally none his first year, and of course Ruth you can't really count as not an everyday player.
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Thats a transformation. Last edited by Jim65; 01-28-2022 at 04:15 AM. |
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And this transformation has never happened to any other player who found himself in a new environment with new hitting coaches?
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Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#28
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We need more card pictures. Here is 3 Red Sox players "cards" that contain several cards.
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Ortiz failed a drug test in 2003 and his stats skyrocketed the same year and you think it was the hitting coach? Unbelievable. |
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Nearly his first times with Boston when he got out trying for the opposite field he was told "that's not what you're here for, swing away" Just a story to fill a book? Maybe? But taking an approach that's more suitable to your skills and way of thinking is generally good for most people. Look at his AB/HR across that time and beyond. 2001 16.83 2002 20.6 2003 14.45 2004 14.19 2005 12.78 2006 10.33 2007 16.68 2008 18.08 The years after are roughly the same without doing the math. Around 30 in about 4-500AB His last couple years in MN he was actually a better HR hitter than he was in 2003 and 4. And really only had one outlier year where he was really a lot better. I think you'll find a lot of players who had that one crazy year. Maris and George Foster come to mind immediately, and they were probably not doping. |
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So the 750 ops hitter will always be a 750 ops hitter , period? And I do think it’s probable he used. If you have been on a post HS sports team since mid 1980’s you realize it was/is rampant. There are some Players at all levels, who use and you would never know, because they never had the natural talent of a Bonds or Arod. To think otherwise is tomfoolery. FWIW 1998 was the most entertaining season I personally ever enjoyed. Thomas
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My original response was to a poster that claimed Ortiz never went through any transformation at all. Then claimed it was because of a hitting coach. |
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Nah...it's just pure coincidence this all happened when he teamed up with Man-Ram.
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To be fair, he no doubt got a bump in performance just being in the same lineup as Ramirez. |
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Papi failed a drug test. No inside info. |
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