And it's in, Ortiz has been elected to the Hall

[butchie_t]

In the spirit of Meat Loaf…….2 out of 3 ain’t bad.

If you get my meaning.

[mrreality68]

I believe the others get a second chance with the Modern committee this summer

[mainemule]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I believe the others get a second chance with the Modern committee this summer

I understand this group mostly "older" HOFers will not be so favorable for Bonds/Clemens/et al....unless they can get Selig, Piazza, Bagwell and othes from that era on the committee I do not think they will get in on this committee for a while.

IMO, it is a Museum and it is lacking without the all-time hit leader, HR leader and Cy-Young winner as electees

Lasltly, Schilling outperforms all the names others placed here by way of 3,000 K's, 3 WS, Bloody Sock and over-all post-season record. During his playing career he was regarded as a great teammate and was recognized for his volunteer work (he won a Clemente award). His post career D-bagness killed his BBWAA possibilities.

[butchie_t]

Time to move on from this. No amount of postulating from either faction will change the following facts:

Ortiz is in the HOF

Bonds is not in the HOF
Clemens is not in the HOF
Sosa is not in the HOF

Today is a new day, let's focus on who we hate for next years vote. Get an early start as there is plenty of time for it.

Personally I cannot wait until Todd Helton gets voted in. Gonna be a couple of years though. I can wait.......

One thing I believe we all can agree on is this: If a person that is issued a ballot to vote for the HOF and turns in an empty ballot, they should be removed from ever voting again for any further HOF ballots. And frankly if someone cannot muster at least 5 people to vote for, they should just never be able to vote again either. IMHO

[Snapolit1]

Don't know why they even need to keep electing people. At this point just tell the story of baseball, good, bad and ugly, and leave it at that.

The Hall is such an amazing place. A shame that this debate about electing people will never end.

Soon the same debate will continue about guys suspected/charged with domestic abuse or drugs and DWIs or may other things. It's not going away.

Obviously Bonds, Clemens, etc. are the fall guys for an era everyone knew was taking place and looked the other way.

[Frank A]

I love it. All the criers on here rooting for the roid boys. I hope they never get in, and all their records should be trashed. Some of you guys must have hundreds of their rookie cards. Tough shit.

[npa589]

The only player I can't stand of the three is Clemens. I was privileged to have the opportunity to watch Bonds and Ortiz play. Even as a miserable 2004 Cubs fan, I'll never forget watching the 2004 Red Sox/Yankees series in my University of Miami dorm room and the moments provided by how clutch Ortiz was - and those great Joe Buck/McCarver calls.

That being said - at Ortiz's peak, at the pinnacle of his talent and ability, he was still no more than half of the ballplayer that Bonds was at Bonds' lowest ability level during Bonds' career. Before simply disregarding that, think it through. At no point was Ortiz ever even in the same realm as Bonds. Let's say Ortiz didn't do steroids, which is hilarious to believe (and I don't really blame them, can't say I wouldn't do the same thing given choice between meandering amidst a sea of steroid users, or leveling my own playing field - given that MLB didn't care at all), then STILL at no point was Ortiz anywhere near the ballplayer that Bonds was prior to his steroid use.

It's just pathetic, and clearly points to the media's hatred towards Bonds - who always hated them.

[darwinbulldog]

Popularity contest. I'll continue collecting cards of the best players, of which Hall membership is not a particularly accurate indicator.

[G1911]

Hell, many of the players being punished by the hall for steroids weren't even breaking any rule at all, test or no test. Andro wasn't banned when McGwire became known to be a user, and yet he, an obviously more deserving candidate than Ortiz, was ignored in the voting.

Ignoring Ortiz' test because it is known from a leak and the appeal and re-test processes wasn't in place (which seems to be what Manfred is actually referring to), while continuing to punish literally every other known user, including players who 1) didn't test positive at all and/or 2) were not even breaking the rules and/or 3) also tested positive in 2003 before the institution of the current procedures takes some truly incredible mental gymnastics to justify the obvious: Ortiz is held to a completely different standard from every other player. Reason should tell this is absurd.

[lowpopper]

[lowpopper]

HOF election process is the new Miss America pageant

[Gnep31]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I'm disappointed in baseball. I'm sure Ortiz is a nice guy, but they applied a different set of standards to “Big Papi” since he is an MLB studio analyst for FOX Sports. He contributes to the network's regular season, All-Star Game and MLB Postseason coverage and I'm sure that helped him get in the hall.

A-Rod is also an analyst but he is universally disliked. I think in part because he is just weird, but also because he blatantly lied for years about his doping. People like Big Papi.

Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod - All cheated and have very disagreeable personalities which, right or wrong, is a factor in voters minds.

[etsmith]

Sammy Sosa should definitely not get in, without the steroid use he was an average player at best.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

Time to move on from this. No amount of postulating from either faction will change the following facts:

Ortiz is in the HOF

Bonds is not in the HOF
Clemens is not in the HOF
Sosa is not in the HOF

Today is a new day, let's focus on who we hate for next years vote. Get an early start as there is plenty of time for it.

Personally I cannot wait until Todd Helton gets voted in. Gonna be a couple of years though. I can wait.......

One thing I believe we all can agree on is this: If a person that is issued a ballot to vote for the HOF and turns in an empty ballot, they should be removed from ever voting again for any further HOF ballots. And frankly if someone cannot muster at least 5 people to vote for, they should just never be able to vote again either. IMHO

If we follow this logic, that we should not discuss things that have happened in the past (including yesterday) because the past cannot be changed, then there would be almost nothing to talk about on a board about old items and baseball history.

[GasHouseGang]

I'm not happy with the Baseball HOF but at least they have a process. Don't even get me started on the Rock 'n' Roll HOF!

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I'm not happy with the Baseball HOF but at least they have a process. Don't even get me started on the Rock 'n' Roll HOF!

+++++

[GasHouseGang]

I'm disappointed in baseball. I'm sure Ortiz is a nice guy, but they applied a different set of standards to “Big Papi” since he is an MLB studio analyst for FOX Sports. He contributes to the network's regular season, All-Star Game and MLB Postseason coverage and I'm sure that helped him get in the hall.

[MikeF34]

Absolutely crazy...

Totally agree, Ortiz, referred to as 'Big Sloppy' by Yankee fans gets a pass when the other guys don't... He might be the only guy that was 'mistaken' for someone else, while flirting around with the drug lords wife... Put that on his bust...

[ullmandds]

Big papi may be HOF material...but certainly not more so than bonds/arod/clemens.

It's appalling. The whole world is upside down at the moment!

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Papi never tested positive in ALL the years after the rules were put in place. He's a deserving 1st ballot HOFer. I've never witnessed a better clutch hitter.

Having said that, I do also believe, Clemens and Bonds deserve to be in.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Papi never tested positive in ALL the years after the rules were put in place. He's a deserving 1st ballot HOFer. I've never witnessed a better clutch hitter.

Having said that, I do also believe, Clemens and Bonds deserve to be in.

That is proof how horrible the testing was.

[G1911]

Bonds and Clemens didn’t test positive in all the years the testing was in place either. It makes zero logical sense that Ortiz and Ortiz alone is forgiven while everyone else continues to be denied. Ortiz was nowhere near as good as Bonds, Rodriguez, Clemens.

This years ballot seems to have very little to due with the 2 dominating factors of recent history: statistical performance and steroid status. Ortiz is let in for no consistent logical reason, Schilling is denied because for the first time ever people want to invoke the character clause for off field behavior (can anyone cite any single example of a player kept out of the hall for off field behavior?) to punish outspoken political views the media writers as a group hate, Vizquel has a historic plummet over his much more serious off the field allegations.

Hell, how does Gary Sheffield get more votes than Alex Rodriguez? This ballot appears the result of different than normal standards and outright double standards.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is proof how horrible the testing was.

Don't know how good or bad it was. I'm not a doctor or a steroid lab technician. But the testing did catch quite a few players and Papi wasn't one of them.

[MikeF34]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is proof how horrible the testing was.

Did Bonds... so why the double standard.. maybe that Drug Lord has some pull in the hall votes

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Papi never tested positive in ALL the years after the rules were put in place.

Bonds and Clemens both ended their careers in 2007 without a suspension or proven positive test from Major League Baseball.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Papi never tested positive in ALL the years after the rules were put in place. He's a deserving 1st ballot HOFer. I've never witnessed a better clutch hitter.

Having said that, I do also believe, Clemens and Bonds deserve to be in.

+1 agree with every word. Most clutch hitter I ever saw. And I am a lifetime Yankees fan. Finally, yes, Clemens and Bonds ought to be in.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Papi never tested positive in ALL the years after the rules were put in place. He's a deserving 1st ballot HOFer. I've never witnessed a better clutch hitter.

Having said that, I do also believe, Clemens and Bonds deserve to be in.

+1 agree exactly

[Collectorsince62]

I guess there is no more uproar about a career DH getting in after Edgar Martinez was elected. Personally, I don't think any DH deserves first ballot election. Defense matters. What's next . . . holders in Canton?

And what if Bonds and Clemens were elected? Would they even accept? Imagine the induction speech. Remember Enos Slaughter's opening remark?
God only knows what Bonds would say. It might be the first speech to get booed. How many fellow HOFers would skip the ceremony in protest? The sanctity of the induction ceremony would be in serious jeopardy.

[jimjim]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Papi never tested positive in ALL the years after the rules were put in place. He's a deserving 1st ballot HOFer. I've never witnessed a better clutch hitter.

Having said that, I do also believe, Clemens and Bonds deserve to be in.

Arod never tested positive either. Those high PEDs were able to avoid detection for years. Not having a positive test means nothing in my opinion.

[JustinD]

I am again very blah about the Hall and their decision to continue to rely on electors that try to take moral stances instead of electing Hall of Fame deserving members. I gave up on caring about them forever ago as it is not the Hall of Fame and should be renamed "The Hall of Fairly Good Guys We Like". I will continue to just think it has the same luster now as a Gold Glove and just view this news in passing each year and forget in a month.

If these things still get you excited and happy please enjoy, this is just my opinion.

[D. Bergin]

There were HUUUUUGE paper trails for ARod/Bonds/Clemens that doesn't exist for Ortiz. Wish people would admit that.

This coming from a Yankee fan that despised Ortiz when he played.

That said, I'm pretty beyond caring whether most of these guys get in or not. It's not like people are ever going to forget who Bonds / Clemens / ARod / Pete Rose, etc......are.

I prefer seeing the guys who are nearly forgotten by time and fans, get brought back into view to be remembered and celebrated after most people have forgotten who they were, and what they might have accomplished or sacrificed in their careers.

I'll leave it to others to argue whether they "deserve" it or not.

As an aside, I've been to about 20 Boxing Hall of Fame inductions over the years. I gave up being upset about somebody getting in, that I thought didn't "deserve" it, when I saw how much it meant to the families and the many surviving boxers who had been beaten up and forgotten by time.

I'm not going to tell anybody that Harold Baines doesn't "deserve" to be in the HOF, just because Barry Bonds's head swelled to the size of a basketball over the course of his career.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Big papi may be HOF material...but certainly not more so than bonds/arod/clemens.

It's appalling. The whole world is upside down at the moment!

Yep - I'm so DONE with these so called sportswriters and the entire process for HOF elections. effem

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Big papi may be HOF material...but certainly not more so than bonds/arod/clemens.

It's appalling. The whole world is upside down at the moment!

understatement of the year...