2022 Baseball Hall of Fame - tracker

[53toppscollector]

Its insane to me that Bonds is not going to get voted in on the regular ballot. There are a lot of guys in the HoF who have transgressions as bad or worse than what Bonds allegedly did. And even if you subtract everything Bonds did in SF, the first part of career would have made him HoF worthy. The greatest player I've ever seen, and I don't think its really all that close.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

Its insane to me that Bonds is not going to get voted in on the regular ballot. There are a lot of guys in the HoF who have transgressions as bad or worse than what Bonds allegedly did. And even if you subtract everything Bonds did in SF, the first part of career would have made him HoF worthy. The greatest player I've ever seen, and I don't think its really all that close.

Have to disagree on the best ever. Hank Aaron is better in almost every stat except a handful of home runs. I think Hank is often overshadow by Willie as well who he also had superior stats to.
Conclusion, buy Hank Aaron rookie cards

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Have to disagree on the best ever. Hank Aaron is better in almost every stat except a handful of home runs. I think Hank is often overshadow by Willie as well who he also had superior stats to.
Conclusion, buy Hank Aaron rookie cards

I said that I've ever seen. I'm maybe younger than you and never saw Aaron play

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

I said that I've ever seen. I'm maybe younger than you and never saw Aaron play

Ah, sorry I actually am also too young to have seen Hank play. Guess I glazed over the post a bit quick. But I still wanted to share that 🤣

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Have to disagree on the best ever. Hank Aaron is better in almost every stat except a handful of home runs. I think Hank is often overshadow by Willie as well who he also had superior stats to.
Conclusion, buy Hank Aaron rookie cards

No chance Aaron is better than Bonds. Not even close. It's more than stats.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

No chance Aaron is better than Bonds. Not even close. It's more than stats.

What? There is no other way to decide who's a better player than using stats. What is beyond stats that makes bonds come anywhere close to being a better player than Hank? I can't find it.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

What? There is no other way to decide who's a better player than using stats. What is beyond stats that makes bonds come anywhere close to being a better player than Hank? I can't find it.

Sure, let's talk about base running, stealing, defense and arm. Bonds hands down. Not even close. Aaron had negative dWar. Have you ever watched baseball? Then you should know there's more than just stats to impact a game and the individual/teams success.

[profholt82]

Just saw the headline that Bonds and Clemens didn't get in on their final year of eligibility. It's nice to see some good news for a change.

[bmattioli]

No brainer for Ortiz.. He IS Boston!!

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Sure, let's talk about base running, stealing, defense and arm. Bonds hands down. Not even close. Aaron had negative dWar. Have you ever watched baseball? Then you should know there's more than just stats to impact a game and the individual/teams success.

Calm down we are sharing opinions. You think stolen bases and .984 vs .980 fielding beats hank aaron? A negative dWar is almost meaningless for individual or team success. Many amazing defenders are negative or a point or two above zero. Griffey jr had a staggering 2.2 career dWar. Not to mention Hank played quite a few games at first base which obviously hurt his defense.

Hank was busy running out his 3771 hits while bonds was jogging to first with a full sprint still reserved for stealing second after his 2500 walks. Of course he’s going to have more steals.

Bonds didn’t even hit .300 with 2500 less ABs. That’s a bit pathetic for a best ever contender imo.
“Oh well he got walked allot”
Exactly right.
So extremely high chances his career average would’ve been even lower than what it is now if he didn’t get those walks.

We haven’t even factored in performance enhancement that skewed his physical abilities. Arm strength and Speed namely. Basically the only 2 things he could beat hank in.

Bonds will never be the best.
Ever.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Calm down we are sharing opinions. You think stolen bases and .984 vs .980 fielding beats hank aaron? A negative dWar is almost meaningless for individual or team success. Many amazing defenders are negative or a point or two above zero. Griffey jr had a staggering 2.2 career dWar. Not to mention Hank played quite a few games at first base which obviously hurt his defense.

Hank was busy running out his 3771 hits while bonds was jogging to first with a full sprint still reserved for stealing second after his 2500 walks. Of course he’s going to have more steals.

Bonds didn’t even hit .300 with 2500 less ABs. That’s a bit pathetic for a best ever contender imo.
“Oh well he got walked allot”
Exactly right.
So extremely high chances his career average would’ve been even lower than what it is now if he didn’t get those walks.

We haven’t even factored in performance enhancement that skewed his physical abilities. Arm strength and Speed namely. Basically the only 2 things he could beat hank in.

Bonds will never be the best.
Ever.

I can nit pick plenty too. Bonds is the best. Ever. Everything backs it up. And much better than Aaron.

We'll never see eye to eye, that's fine. Always an interesting topic.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

No chance Aaron is better than Bonds. Not even close. It's more than stats.

You're right, it's more than stats. Let's revisit how Barry's ignorance/arrogance lost the NLCS to the Braves in 1992, by not being able to throw out Sid Bream, the slowest runner in the history of runners, at home on a base hit. And this was before the 'roid usage in SF. From Wikipedia (with references):

"On the third pitch, with Belinda behind, 2-0, Cabrera ripped a foul line drive to left field. After the play, Van Slyke and Bonds got into a brief argument as Van Slyke signaled to the left fielder to move in so he could cut off a potential single and keep the runners from scoring; Bonds gave Van Slyke the finger and refused to move.[16][23][24] Sure enough, Cabrera again lined a pitch to left that dropped in front of Bonds for a hit.[25] Justice scored from third easily, which tied the game.[16][21][24] Bonds came up with the ball, but was out of position and had to throw across his body.[24][25] Third base coach Jimy Williams spotted this as Bream, running on five-times surgically repaired knees and thus, one of the slowest baserunners in the league, got to him at third. Williams decided to wave Bream in, thinking the off balance throw might not reach catcher Mike LaValliere in time for him to tag the slow-footed first baseman. Bonds' throw was indeed offline, which caused LaValliere to move to his right to field the ball just before Bream got to the plate. The extra motion allowed Bream to slide in ahead of LaValliere's tag, and the Braves won, 3–2.[16]"

Barry did things at the plate that I've never seen anyone else do. But Barry always put Barry first, and in a team game, that doesn't fly. And I don't know how stats measure that. So you are right, his measure is beyond stats.

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgjIVvEQo_o

Look to me like the ball wasn't hit in front of Bonds but well to his left.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgjIVvEQo_o

Look to me like the ball wasn't hit in front of Bonds but well to his left.

Yep. Not even CLOSE. He's well out of the frame and runs quite a bit. If he played in, that ball goes to the wall and he has no chance to cut it off like he barely did.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

You're right, it's more than stats. Let's revisit how Barry's ignorance/arrogance lost the NLCS to the Braves in 1992, by not being able to throw out Sid Bream, the slowest runner in the history of runners, at home on a base hit. And this was before the 'roid usage in SF. From Wikipedia (with references):

"On the third pitch, with Belinda behind, 2-0, Cabrera ripped a foul line drive to left field. After the play, Van Slyke and Bonds got into a brief argument as Van Slyke signaled to the left fielder to move in so he could cut off a potential single and keep the runners from scoring; Bonds gave Van Slyke the finger and refused to move.[16][23][24] Sure enough, Cabrera again lined a pitch to left that dropped in front of Bonds for a hit.[25] Justice scored from third easily, which tied the game.[16][21][24] Bonds came up with the ball, but was out of position and had to throw across his body.[24][25] Third base coach Jimy Williams spotted this as Bream, running on five-times surgically repaired knees and thus, one of the slowest baserunners in the league, got to him at third. Williams decided to wave Bream in, thinking the off balance throw might not reach catcher Mike LaValliere in time for him to tag the slow-footed first baseman. Bonds' throw was indeed offline, which caused LaValliere to move to his right to field the ball just before Bream got to the plate. The extra motion allowed Bream to slide in ahead of LaValliere's tag, and the Braves won, 3–2.[16]"

Barry did things at the plate that I've never seen anyone else do. But Barry always put Barry first, and in a team game, that doesn't fly. And I don't know how stats measure that. So you are right, his measure is beyond stats.

If Bonds had played in that ball probably goes to the wall. Ball was hit WELL to his left (heck, you can see how long it takes him to get into frame). We all know Bonds is a dick. But this play is a bad example because the outcome most likely is the same, a run scored. But, let's not forget to give props to Bream who had a great jump as well off the bat and no hesitation rounding third. He ran the bases perfectly for someone like him.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

Its insane to me that Bonds is not going to get voted in on the regular ballot. There are a lot of guys in the HoF who have transgressions as bad or worse than what Bonds allegedly did. And even if you subtract everything Bonds did in SF, the first part of career would have made him HoF worthy. The greatest player I've ever seen, and I don't think its really all that close.

If Mantle had taken steroids he could have played til he was 42 and hit 1,100 HRs. Just saying.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

If Mantle had taken steroids he could have played til he was 42 and hit 1,100 HRs. Just saying.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Long live the Mick, but I don't think mixing vodka and steroids is such a wise choice.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

Its insane to me that Bonds is not going to get voted in on the regular ballot. There are a lot of guys in the HoF who have transgressions as bad or worse than what Bonds allegedly did. And even if you subtract everything Bonds did in SF, the first part of career would have made him HoF worthy. The greatest player I've ever seen, and I don't think its really all that close.

I completely agree here. Todd Helton is a habitual drunk driver, who has served jail time for it and he's left the scene of an accident. You're telling me that someone who did steroids is a worse person than that? Not on the planet I live on. Helton put people in danger who knows how many times in his life. If he ever makes it to Cooperstown, I hope he uses an Uber to get there. It's insane to me that Helton is picking up votes in the same year that Vizquel is (deservedly) losing votes by the boatload for what he did off of the field. Imagine Wade Boggs, who lost his mom to a drunk driver, having to sit on the stage while they celebrate Helton...that alone should make voters think twice about him.

[dmats33312]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

Its insane to me that Bonds is not going to get voted in on the regular ballot. There are a lot of guys in the HoF who have transgressions as bad or worse than what Bonds allegedly did. And even if you subtract everything Bonds did in SF, the first part of career would have made him HoF worthy. The greatest player I've ever seen, and I don't think its really all that close.

Like David Ortiz, who actually tested positive when Bonds was just on the Mitchell report (not to say Bonds didn't use, he did but Ortiz tested positive.). And Ortiz is a fringe HoFer with 55.3 WAR (regardless for who believe in it as a stat or not). I have no clue how Ortiz will get votes and not Bonds and others already got in like Bagwell, Rodriguez, Piazza and more while Clemens, Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire and Bonds were superior players and need the veterans committee.

[53toppscollector]

Bonds drew 688 intentional walks in his career. He drew 120 intentional walks in 2004 alone. That 120 total would have been good enough for the 94th highest career total in history. And he did that in one season. At age 39. Steroids or no, he was an unbelievable hitter, and I don't think the steroids helped him hit the ball further or swing faster. Recover more quickly? Maybe. But he was an absolutely freakishly good hitter. One of the best to ever do it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

Bonds drew 688 intentional walks in his career. He drew 120 intentional walks in 2004 alone. That 120 total would have been good enough for the 94th highest career total in history. And he did that in one season. At age 39. Steroids or no, he was an unbelievable hitter, and I don't think the steroids helped him hit the ball further or swing faster. Recover more quickly? Maybe. But he was an absolutely freakishly good hitter. One of the best to ever do it.

So he magically got even better in his late 30's but 'roids didn't help his performance. RIIIIIIGHHHHT

[sycks22]

I'll never understand how Scott Rolen might get in at some point. He was a decent player and only was in the top 13 of MVP voting once in his career. He was never great in any category and was average in most of them. I guess he's better than Harold Baines, so there's that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sycks22

I'll never understand how Scott Rolen might get in at some point. He was a decent player and only was in the top 13 of MVP voting once in his career. He was never great in any category and was average in most of them. I guess he's better than Harold Baines, so there's that.

Lower standard statistically for third basemen, no?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Lower standard statistically for third basemen, no?

Third base is one of the least represented positions in the Hall so I think standards have generally been higher for third basemen not lower.

[Mike D.]

Looking at BB-R WAR:

Rolen ranks 10th in WAR among third basemen all time. The average WAR of the 15 Hall of Fame 3B is 68.4. Rolen put up 70.

And it’s not like he wasn’t recognized during his career…7 time all star, 8 gold gloves, etc.

[Bobsbats]

Originally Posted by sycks22

I'll never understand how Scott Rolen might get in at some point. He was a decent player and only was in the top 13 of MVP voting once in his career. He was never great in any category and was average in most of them. I guess he's better than Harold Baines, so there's that.

Peter,

I couldn't agree with you more. Rolen was a fantastic defensive 3Bman, but this hype over him is ridiculous.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

Bonds drew 688 intentional walks in his career. He drew 120 intentional walks in 2004 alone. That 120 total would have been good enough for the 94th highest career total in history. And he did that in one season. At age 39. Steroids or no, he was an unbelievable hitter, and I don't think the steroids helped him hit the ball further or swing faster. Recover more quickly? Maybe. But he was an absolutely freakishly good hitter. One of the best to ever do it.

I guess they should not be called performance enhancing drugs then, wonder why people call them that?