PWCC Boggles the Mind. New Auctions

[x2drich2000]

If this was any other auction company, would we care or make a big deal of it? and how is this any different than HA's weekly auction that they've been holding for years? 20% is pretty much the hobby norm for BP so no different than what most other companies are doing.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

If this was any other auction company, would we care or make a big deal of it? and how is this any different than HA's weekly auction that they've been holding for years? 20% is pretty much the hobby norm for BP so no different than what most other companies are doing.

I guess just odd in that all of us know them as an eBay seller where we weren’t charged a premium . When they said they were leaving eBay to create their own marketplace I’d didnt figure they’d be charging a buyers premium. But as Peter says shouldn’t affect a buyer if you plan accordingly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

They have to earn a fee. It's the same difference if they take it off the hammer price and call it a seller's fee, or add it to the hammer price and call it a buyer's premium, because any rational buyer will bid factoring in the premium and will end up paying the same either way.

Simply stated, rather than bidding 120 for an item on ebay, you would bid 100 knowing 20 is going to be added.

Why buyer's premiums remain an issue for people really is beyond me. They're an issue for consignors to be sure, because they affect their take by depressing hammer price, not for buyers.

[Flintboy]

Not trying to go into a deep discussion about this issue, but if I’m going to get nailed with a BP then I should receive top quality service. Websites routinely crashing, AH’s bidding on their own cards, listing cards that are knowingly altered, etc. I have to pay 20% extra for that? It seems like everything is very difficult bidding with a true auction house, it really shouldn’t be. Hard pass on bidding with PWCC.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They have to earn a fee. It's the same difference if they take it off the hammer price and call it a seller's fee, or add it to the hammer price and call it a buyer's premium, because any rational buyer will bid factoring in the premium and will end up paying the same either way.

Simply stated, rather than bidding 120 for an item on ebay, you would bid 100 knowing 20 is going to be added.

Why buyer's premiums remain an issue for people really is beyond me. They're an issue for consignors to be sure, because they affect their take by depressing hammer price, not for buyers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

Not trying to go into a deep discussion about this issue, but if I’m going to get nailed with a BP then I should receive top quality service. Websites routinely crashing, AH’s bidding on their own cards, listing cards that are knowingly altered, etc. I have to pay 20% extra for that? It seems like everything is very difficult bidding with a true auction house, it really shouldn’t be. Hard pass on bidding with PWCC.

I think you should expect that service from anyone you are bidding good money with, whether or not they call part of your payment a premium or not.

[25801wv]

I have never consigned with them but I imagine they were charging seller fees than 10% when they were on ebay and I assume they paid the ebay and paypal fees out of that 10%. Now they get their own website and charge 20% fee. 100% increase. Must be a nice business to own. Good luck to them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 25801wv

I have never consigned with them but I imagine they were charging seller fees than 10% when they were on ebay and I assume they paid the ebay and paypal fees out of that 10%. Now they get their own website and charge 20% fee. 100% increase. Must be a nice business to own. Good luck to them.

I would imagine that between doubling their effective seller's fee and no longer being visible as they were on ebay, they would not keep the same level of consignments?

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by 25801wv

I have never consigned with them but I imagine they were charging seller fees than 10% when they were on ebay and I assume they paid the ebay and paypal fees out of that 10%. Now they get their own website and charge 20% fee. 100% increase. Must be a nice business to own. Good luck to them.

I agree. It's hard to run a profitable business, pay fair or above avg wages to retain staff, please both suppliers and clients while maintaining a high level of customer care. If the consignors are pleased then cards are selling because buyers are paying. They disclose the fee up front and providing supply to meet demand. A 20%gp is not substantial.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

Not trying to go into a deep discussion about this issue, but if I’m going to get nailed with a BP then I should receive top quality service. Websites routinely crashing, AH’s bidding on their own cards, listing cards that are knowingly altered, etc. I have to pay 20% extra for that? It seems like everything is very difficult bidding with a true auction house, it really shouldn’t be. Hard pass on bidding with PWCC.

You said it all, Brian. Auction houses differ in the services they offer. Regular communication after the sale, premium packaging, returns made easy, hi-rez scans sent in email, etc. PWCC charges the premium but gives an EBAY experience. an EBAY experience, i.e. getting one tracking email, hit or miss packaging quality and cheap post office shipping = no premium. Charge me a BP, make it a premium experience. I bought an altered card from them so I'm still not happy with Brent and his company, thus I guess I'm NOT a PWCC fan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Would you be happier if there was no premium but you had to bid 20 percent higher to win?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Would you be happier if there was no premium but you had to bid 20 percent higher to win?

Like everyone else, I am just elated that PWCC is not in prison and can still offer me cards, altered or not and shilled or not, so that I can get that much closer to completing my collection. I would pay as much as a 30% BP to boot! I mean I as hard as I look, it seems PWCC is the only seller offering cards for sale in an auction format. Without him, we might have to collect stamps or action figures.

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to everyone working us...I mean working hard for us...at PWCC.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Would you be happier if there was no premium but you had to bid 20 percent higher to win?

I think many of us agree with you in theory Peter. But as a few have stated, in practice, likely many of us have failed to fully do the "mental math" and thus have overpaid. I believe, as expressed by others, that's not uncommon in the heat of the moment. And while I agree that would be the buyer's fault, I'm confident the AH is counting on such lapses to inflate their margin. Why else would most AH's not display the true cost of purchase?

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They have to earn a fee. It's the same difference if they take it off the hammer price and call it a seller's fee, or add it to the hammer price and call it a buyer's premium, because any rational buyer will bid factoring in the premium and will end up paying the same either way.

Simply stated, rather than bidding 120 for an item on ebay, you would bid 100 knowing 20 is going to be added.

Why buyer's premiums remain an issue for people really is beyond me. They're an issue for consignors to be sure, because they affect their take by depressing hammer price, not for buyers.

It does make a difference Peter. For those on a relative card budget, 20% could mean paying significantly more for a card. You gave an example of winning a card for $100 but now having to pay $120 with BP. What if you win a card for $400, now it becomes a $480 card, etc. That will limit the smaller collector who may want to bid on multiple cards. I for one, don't like forking over an extra 20%.

Maybe this keeps PWCC in business. They are certainly scrambling around lately, quite clumsily. They had a brief niche, like Ebay. Now they are like all the other auction houses & crappy servicen thrown in too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

It does make a difference Peter. For those on a relative card budget, 20% could mean paying significantly more for a card. You gave an example of winning a card for $100 but now having to pay $120 with BP. What if you win a card for $400, now it becomes a $480 card, etc. That will limit the smaller collector who may want to bid on multiple cards. I for one, don't like forking over an extra 20%.

Maybe this keeps PWCC in business. They are certainly scrambling around lately, quite clumsily. They had a brief niche, like Ebay. Now they are like all the other auction houses & crappy servicen thrown in too.

I am sorry you really don't understand how this works. Read what I posted again. The same card you "win" for 400 (plus BP) would have cost you 480 on ebay because people would have bid 20 percent MORE if there was no BP. It's a 480 card in both worlds. You aren't saving anything on ebay or paying more to PWCC.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am sorry you really don't understand how this works. Read what I posted again. The same card you "win" for 400 (plus BP) would have cost you 480 on ebay because people would have bid 20 percent MORE if there was no BP. It's a 480 card in both worlds. You aren't saving anything on ebay or paying more to PWCC.

Here I thought the buyers premium was just a way for the AH to pay the consignor less than the real sale price.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

It does make a difference Peter. For those on a relative card budget, 20% could mean paying significantly more for a card. You gave an example of winning a card for $100 but now having to pay $120 with BP. What if you win a card for $400, now it becomes a $480 card, etc. That will limit the smaller collector who may want to bid on multiple cards. I for one, don't like forking over an extra 20%.

Maybe this keeps PWCC in business. They are certainly scrambling around lately, quite clumsily. They had a brief niche, like Ebay. Now they are like all the other auction houses & crappy servicen thrown in too.

I think the thought is of you value you a card at $100 you now bid it at $82ish. From the buyer side really no difference. Maybe I’m missing something.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I think the thought is of you value you a card at $100 you now bid it at $82ish. From the buyer side really no difference. Maybe I’m missing something.

Exactly.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Exactly.

All premiums are paid by the consignor. Unfortunately, 20% seems to be the norm.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

It does make a difference Peter. For those on a relative card budget, 20% could mean paying significantly more for a card. You gave an example of winning a card for $100 but now having to pay $120 with BP. What if you win a card for $400, now it becomes a $480 card, etc. That will limit the smaller collector who may want to bid on multiple cards. I for one, don't like forking over an extra 20%.

Maybe this keeps PWCC in business. They are certainly scrambling around lately, quite clumsily. They had a brief niche, like Ebay. Now they are like all the other auction houses & crappy servicen thrown in too.

I think most...if not all buyers keep the BP in mind when bidding and factor it in as a cost. If cards had absolute values, and they don't, then the high bid would be placed at a point where the added BP would take it to that magic absolute value. In your example if the card had an absolute value of $400 and there was a 20% BP then your high bid could only be $333.

[Yoda]

Ebay auction listings for pre-war and vintage have dried up since PWCC was shown the door. BIN's are even more ludicrous than before. Even with Moser and Co. and known shilling, it was nice not to know there was an extra 20% added on if you won a PWCC auction.

[Kidnapped18]

I mostly like the changes that PWCC has made except the 20% BP
Not a fan of the BP since they started out not charging it in their monthly auctions
They initially had a scale that they paid the sellers a percentage of the final price
But like Peter said you just need to factor the BP into the price you are willing to pay now

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Ebay auction listings for pre-war and vintage have dried up since PWCC was shown the door. BIN's are even more ludicrous than before. Even with Moser and Co. and known shilling, it was nice not to know there was an extra 20% added on if you won a PWCC auction.

This is how I view it.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

If this was any other auction company, would we care or make a big deal of it? and how is this any different than HA's weekly auction that they've been holding for years? 20% is pretty much the hobby norm for BP so no different than what most other companies are doing.

+1. 20% BP is standard; other AHs run weekly auctions; if you don’t like, don’t buy. Frankly, this is a big nothing-burger and hardly “mind-boggling” in my opinion.