PWCC Boggles the Mind. New Auctions

[Flintboy]

Not trying to go into a deep discussion about this issue, but if I’m going to get nailed with a BP then I should receive top quality service. Websites routinely crashing, AH’s bidding on their own cards, listing cards that are knowingly altered, etc. I have to pay 20% extra for that? It seems like everything is very difficult bidding with a true auction house, it really shouldn’t be. Hard pass on bidding with PWCC.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They have to earn a fee. It's the same difference if they take it off the hammer price and call it a seller's fee, or add it to the hammer price and call it a buyer's premium, because any rational buyer will bid factoring in the premium and will end up paying the same either way.

Simply stated, rather than bidding 120 for an item on ebay, you would bid 100 knowing 20 is going to be added.

Why buyer's premiums remain an issue for people really is beyond me. They're an issue for consignors to be sure, because they affect their take by depressing hammer price, not for buyers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

Not trying to go into a deep discussion about this issue, but if I’m going to get nailed with a BP then I should receive top quality service. Websites routinely crashing, AH’s bidding on their own cards, listing cards that are knowingly altered, etc. I have to pay 20% extra for that? It seems like everything is very difficult bidding with a true auction house, it really shouldn’t be. Hard pass on bidding with PWCC.

I think you should expect that service from anyone you are bidding good money with, whether or not they call part of your payment a premium or not.

[25801wv]

I have never consigned with them but I imagine they were charging seller fees than 10% when they were on ebay and I assume they paid the ebay and paypal fees out of that 10%. Now they get their own website and charge 20% fee. 100% increase. Must be a nice business to own. Good luck to them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 25801wv

I have never consigned with them but I imagine they were charging seller fees than 10% when they were on ebay and I assume they paid the ebay and paypal fees out of that 10%. Now they get their own website and charge 20% fee. 100% increase. Must be a nice business to own. Good luck to them.

I would imagine that between doubling their effective seller's fee and no longer being visible as they were on ebay, they would not keep the same level of consignments?

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would imagine that between doubling their effective seller's fee and no longer being visible as they were on ebay, they would not keep the same level of consignments?

Agree. They seem to have their stuff together. Probably figured volume will decrease slightly but price per sale goes up.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Agree. They seem to have their stuff together. Probably figured volume will decrease slightly but price per sale goes up.

Make more, work less. Sounds like a winner to me.

Disclosure: not a fan or PWCC buyer since 2016.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by 25801wv

I have never consigned with them but I imagine they were charging seller fees than 10% when they were on ebay and I assume they paid the ebay and paypal fees out of that 10%. Now they get their own website and charge 20% fee. 100% increase. Must be a nice business to own. Good luck to them.

I agree. It's hard to run a profitable business, pay fair or above avg wages to retain staff, please both suppliers and clients while maintaining a high level of customer care. If the consignors are pleased then cards are selling because buyers are paying. They disclose the fee up front and providing supply to meet demand. A 20%gp is not substantial.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

Not trying to go into a deep discussion about this issue, but if I’m going to get nailed with a BP then I should receive top quality service. Websites routinely crashing, AH’s bidding on their own cards, listing cards that are knowingly altered, etc. I have to pay 20% extra for that? It seems like everything is very difficult bidding with a true auction house, it really shouldn’t be. Hard pass on bidding with PWCC.

You said it all, Brian. Auction houses differ in the services they offer. Regular communication after the sale, premium packaging, returns made easy, hi-rez scans sent in email, etc. PWCC charges the premium but gives an EBAY experience. an EBAY experience, i.e. getting one tracking email, hit or miss packaging quality and cheap post office shipping = no premium. Charge me a BP, make it a premium experience. I bought an altered card from them so I'm still not happy with Brent and his company, thus I guess I'm NOT a PWCC fan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Would you be happier if there was no premium but you had to bid 20 percent higher to win?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Would you be happier if there was no premium but you had to bid 20 percent higher to win?

Like everyone else, I am just elated that PWCC is not in prison and can still offer me cards, altered or not and shilled or not, so that I can get that much closer to completing my collection. I would pay as much as a 30% BP to boot! I mean I as hard as I look, it seems PWCC is the only seller offering cards for sale in an auction format. Without him, we might have to collect stamps or action figures.

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to everyone working us...I mean working hard for us...at PWCC.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Like everyone else, I am just elated that PWCC is not in prison and can still offer me cards, altered or not and shilled or not, so that I can get that much closer to completing my collection. I would pay as much as a 30% BP to boot! I mean I as hard as I look, it seems PWCC is the only seller offering cards for sale in an auction format. Without him, we might have to collect stamps or action figures.

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to everyone working us...I mean working hard for us...at PWCC.

My thoughts as well. If Covid, Inflation and PWCC all fade away in 2022, it will be the best year ever!

That said... I can't believe the level of "debate" over the Buyers Premium. As much as I dislike this particular seller, you cannot begrudge them standard operating costs that virtually all of their competitors also employ. Just factor in the costs and bid accordingly.

[oldjudge]

I have no problem with auction houses who produce a nice catalog charging a 20% buyers premium. Catalog production and mailing costs are high. I do have a problem with on line auctions charging that. Again, does it affect my bids-no. I just somehow find it offensive.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I have no problem with auction houses who produce a nice catalog charging a 20% buyers premium. Catalog production and mailing costs are high. I do have a problem with on line auctions charging that. Again, does it affect my bids-no. I just somehow find it offensive.

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I have no problem with auction houses who produce a nice catalog charging a 20% buyers premium. Catalog production and mailing costs are high. I do have a problem with on line auctions charging that. Again, does it affect my bids-no. I just somehow find it offensive.

Again, it only affects consignors, and if they thought it was too high they would vote with their feet.

[1954 topps]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I have no problem with auction houses who produce a nice catalog charging a 20% buyers premium. Catalog production and mailing costs are high. I do have a problem with on line auctions charging that. Again, does it affect my bids-no. I just somehow find it offensive.

My thoughts exactly, Memory Lane, Heritage Auctions, REA send out some amazing catalogs, many I keep for reference material. 20% for a front and back scan and an often recycled card description, that is a rip-off and they’ll likely lose consignments. I’m seeing Heritage pick up market share lately on vintage. Anyone else noticing that trend?

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Would you be happier if there was no premium but you had to bid 20 percent higher to win?

I think many of us agree with you in theory Peter. But as a few have stated, in practice, likely many of us have failed to fully do the "mental math" and thus have overpaid. I believe, as expressed by others, that's not uncommon in the heat of the moment. And while I agree that would be the buyer's fault, I'm confident the AH is counting on such lapses to inflate their margin. Why else would most AH's not display the true cost of purchase?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dead-Ball-Hitter

I think many of us agree with you in theory Peter. But as a few have stated, in practice, likely many of us have failed to fully do the "mental math" and thus have overpaid. I believe, as expressed by others, that's not uncommon in the heat of the moment. And while I agree that would be the buyer's fault, I'm confident the AH is counting on such lapses to inflate their margin. Why else would most AH's not display the true cost of purchase?

I have been caught up in the heat of the moment many times and doubtless bid too high but that doesn't mean I somehow FORGOT there was a BP. Badly wanting a card doesn't make one brain dead.

[oldjudge]

I think auction houses should start rebating a portion of the buyers commission to buyers. Again, this theoretically should have no impact on buyers net bids, but somehow it would make me feel better.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have been caught up in the heat of the moment many times and doubtless bid too high but that doesn't mean I somehow FORGOT there was a BP. Badly wanting a card doesn't make one brain dead.

There is something of course counter intuitive in agreeing to pay a certain price for an item and then receiving a bill for 30% more (BP, tax, shipping). Do I forget about it? No. Do I always have it top of mind? No. Many auctions I don't go in with a fixed idea that I'm spending $3885 and not a penny more. And when you see heating bidding it's easy to think "hey maybe this is worth mote than I thought. Other people want it too. . . " All I ask is that the AH post at time of bidding what the actual price with BP will be. Don't think that's unreasonable to ask.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

There is something of course counter intuitive in agreeing to pay a certain price for an item and then receiving a bill for 30% more (BP, tax, shipping). Do I forget about it? No. Do I always have it top of mind? No. Many auctions I don't go in with a fixed idea that I'm spending $3885 and not a penny more. And when you see heating bidding it's easy to think "hey maybe this is worth mote than I thought. Other people want it too. . . " All I ask is that the AH post at time of bidding what the actual price with BP will be. Don't think that's unreasonable to ask.

How hard is it to figure out? One simple calculation. Geez. And when one has bid in countless auctions how can one not have the BP and extras in mind? It's not like any auction doesn't charge a BP. I dunno Steve, shaking my head at this one.