Observations while hunting for a Ryan rookie....

[Exhibitman]

I am missing only the RC for my Ryan run but I just cannot bring myself to pay the price. I wouldn't have a Bench RC either except that I bought a collection a few years ago that had one in it.

[toppcat]

It's hard to find without a tilt. Same with the 67 Seaver.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by toppcat

It's hard to find without a tilt. Same with the 67 Seaver.

From both a baseball and a baseball card perspective, it still makes no sense to me that the Ryan RC is worth more than the '67 Seaver. Seaver is pretty demonstrably the better pitcher, but I guess people are enthralled still by all the K's and no-hitters that Ryan's reputation rests on. The '67 Seaver is the much tougher card, being a legit rarity as a 7th series single print - while the Ryan is a pretty middle of the road 2nd series card in 1968. I mean I get it, but...

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

From both a baseball and a baseball card perspective, it still makes no sense to me that the Ryan RC is worth more than the '67 Seaver. Seaver is pretty demonstrably the better pitcher, but I guess people are enthralled still by all the K's and no-hitters that Ryan's reputation rests on. The '67 Seaver is the much tougher card, being a legit rarity as a 7th series single print - while the Ryan is a pretty middle of the road 2nd series card in 1968. I mean I get it, but...

It's definitely the no-hitters and the K's.

Those are dramatic events that people remember.

All sports are littered with athletes that people collect, more for the memories they created, rather then their actual full resumes.

Mike Tyson and Joe Namath are the two biggest examples I can think of, off the top of my head. On a smaller scale, Roger Maris is another.

[Kutcher55]

I just picked up a beater Ryan RC for a bit under $300. Yeah I agree it’s worth more than maybe it “should” be and the pop count for this card is crazy high. That all said, it is a Ryan RC. If you asked anyone what their top ten most iconic baseball cards are between 1950 and 1990 this card would be a lock to be on the list IMO. The Seaver RC, although considerably more scarce, would simply not be on that list. Ryan is held in higher regard by collectors certainly, even though you could make a case Seaver was the better pitcher. There’s also the strike out thing.

Heck I never wanted to pay for this card because I do feel it’s overvalued based purely on data. But maybe it actually isn’t overvalued after all. The card has gravitas.

Top 10 most iconic cards from 1950-1990 IMO: 51B Mantle. 52T Mantle, Mays and Robinson. 54 Hank Aaron. 55 Clemente. 68 Ryan. 75 Brett. 80 Henderson. 84D Mattingly.

Honorable mentions: 56 Mantle. 63/64 Rose. 67 Seaver RC. 73 Schmidt. 54 Banks. 89 UD griffey. 89 Ripken FF. 90T F Thomas RC. 85T McGwire.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

If you asked anyone what their top ten most iconic baseball cards are between 1950 and 1990 this card would be a lock to be on the list IMO. The Seaver RC, although considerably more scarce, would simply not be on that list.

Agreed. When I was 13, the Ryan RC was every kid's dream card. I still remember the first copy I had as a young adult, because I remember thinking I would never own it. But I'm also old enough to remember when I first started collecting - and Tom Seaver was still active and was held in way higher regard than Nolan Ryan. It's just crazy to me how that changed over the last 35-ish years or so.

Another who hasn't necessarily aged well per se is Joe DiMaggio. When I was a kid he was routinely mentioned in top 10 lists, etc. Not so much today. Certainly in his prime though in the 1940's - he was one of the single most popular Americans, not just ballplayers.

[profholt82]

He was dominant into his 40s, still regularly leading the majors in strikeouts as one of its oldest players, and he still holds the all-time record. In 27 seasons, he maintained an ERA in the low 3s. Yet, some of you are sitting here diminishing him? "People collect him for the memories he created, like Joe Namath or Roger Maris." Seriously?

Tom Seaver had a long, brilliant career, but by the time he was into his 30s, he was just a solid pitcher in the rotation, no longer dominant. And there's nothing wrong with that, he was great, and pitched for 20 years. But Ryan led the league in strikeouts for 4 straight seasons IN HIS 40s! The guy was a superstar. And not just to the kids of the 70s, but to the kids of the 80s and 90s as well. The same simply can't be said of Tom Seaver.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

It's definitely the no-hitters and the K's.

Those are dramatic events that people remember.

All sports are littered with athletes that people collect, more for the memories they created, rather then their actual full resumes.

Mike Tyson and Joe Namath are the two biggest examples I can think of, off the top of my head. On a smaller scale, Roger Maris is another.

No, I totally agree. Don't get me wrong I love Nolan Ryan; he was my favorite player as a kid. But there are a laundry list of 70's pitchers that were arguably better than him (Seaver, Carlton, Palmer, Jenkins, Gibson, Perry...) who are all but forgotten today by the card hobby because of Nolan Ryan. To me that part is sad.

[mrmopar]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

From both a baseball and a baseball card perspective, it still makes no sense to me that the Ryan RC is worth more than the '67 Seaver. Seaver is pretty demonstrably the better pitcher, but I guess people are enthralled still by all the K's and no-hitters that Ryan's reputation rests on. The '67 Seaver is the much tougher card, being a legit rarity as a 7th series single print - while the Ryan is a pretty middle of the road 2nd series card in 1968. I mean I get it, but...

Growing up in the late 70s/80s, I always preferred cards of Palmer and Seaver over Ryan and Carlton. Might have been the poses. Not sure why, but have more of those 2 than the other 2. Loving the Dodgers, I should have also loved Don Sutton, but not so much.

A lot of what happens in the card world is baffling. Popularity holds more weight than scarcity a lot of the time. The demand is fairly limited, but any scarce oddball card should probably be much more expensive than they are now, if copies are even available. Maris, Mantle, Paige, Koufax and J. Robinson (among others) all have premiums associated with them that really don't match their career stats. Card collectors also tend to never forget. Hot cards of players that go on to bust often stay at elevated levels for some goofy reason, even though they are essentially worthless. I get not wanting to lose money on a failed player, but many people are still paying more for certain guys just to say thery own a once popular (and often expensive) card. Weird.

I have found that collecting what I like and paying only what I think is reasonable has worked well with me and I often shake my head at what I see going on around me.

[deweyinthehall]

I was so in awe of Ryan as a kid and young adult, that when I got married my wife had to warn me that if we had a boy, we would NOT be naming him Nolan or Ryan. Other pitchers of the era were arguably better in some ways. But, Ryan played for the Angels, Astros and Rangers in his prime - none were powerhouses. What if he had spent those same years playing for the Orioles, Yankees, Reds or A's during their dominant periods? Betting he finishes with 400 wins.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I do believe one of his issues was his lack of pitch variety. 9 times out of 10 it was coming in hard and fast and if you could get a piece of it, good for you. So he struck out a Hell of a lot of batters and scored those no-nos, but he also led the league in walks almost as often as in Ks (probably why there wasn't a perfect game somewhere in those no hitters) and he had a middling ERA. Had he worked to develop some better off-speed or breaking material, or concentrated more on location, things may have been different.

Like I said, I'm no expert, so my analysis may be highly suspect. Just somethings I've often thought about him. And don't get me wrong - I still love him and consider him one of the top 10 pitchers of all time, which some experts would argue with.

[MattyC]

I always loved the Ryan RC as a kid (I am 45 now) and it may very well be "the" card from the 60s onward. Just a really classic and super popular card.

I have owned several over the years and what I noticed about the card is that often times the focus/registration can be a little off; this is especially noticeable around the caps, the cap logos, and sides of their faces. Also, tilt and centering are often problems for the card.

I wanted to find a nice looking signed copy to pair with my unsigned, and the signed copies are pretty tough to come by if one wants a pretty one.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

I was so in awe of Ryan as a kid and young adult, that when I got married my wife had to warn me that if we had a boy, we would NOT be naming him Nolan or Ryan.

My brother’s son (aka, my nephew) IS named Nolan. When he talks about it, my brother uses the expression “won life” to explain it.

Of course, Nolan Ryan’s first name isn’t actually Nolan…something even this Red Sox loving dad’s son TEDDY knows!