Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BobC

Surprising how so few lefties pitched in the 19th century. The two I mentioned, Morris and Tannehill, are the best of the lot. I still say maybe Norris for a long career. Not a lot going on there in this Era for lefties.

Waddell and Plank is a tough one, and as noted, similiar to the Spahn-Koufax debate. Either is a good pick really, but I thought Waddell here because he did succeed for longer than Koufax and, despite the wins, Plank NEVER led the league in any important pitching stats, unlike Spahn who did lead in Wins 8 times, ERA 3 times, and Ks 4 years in a row. The only selection you and I disagree on among the different eras. I'm with you on the other Era selections.

Plank Black Ink: 15
Average HOF black ink: 40

Plank Gray ink: 291
Average HOF gray ink: 185

This is what really hurts Plank, he never was really the best pitcher. He was the 2-5 pitcher in the league almost every season. He never had a bad year or really declined. He came into the league excellent and left excellent, which very few have done in lengthy careers. The only time he led in major stats was 1915, his year in the Federal League that was a much inferior league to the National and Americans.

WAR has Plank just a bit below Grove/Johnson/Spahn. Personally I think WAR is biased to modern players and disagree with much of what it weights more than other things, but it does a pretty good job of total value bettween players in a generation. Plank is at 90, Waddell 58, and WAR loves strikeouts which favors Waddell. If I was a GM, and I knew the future, I would draft Gettysburg Eddie for my team over Rube. I’ve got my ace until he’s 41, or a crazy guy whose brilliant but done at 32.

If we were to use the Koufax argument, that only a pitchers best matters, Waddell might be #1 all time. Even in his best years where he tore up the league and won ERA crowns, and granting that the newspapers are probably a little hyperbolic at the least, Waddell was undisciplined, unfocused, and rarely all there. I’m not sure there has ever been a greater left hand talent than him, though I don’t think his career was as valuable as Planks. Koufax was gifted the perfect park, with the perfect mound, in an expansion period. Waddell was given a period where strikeouts were tough to come by, and severe mental problems and no discipline. Both were great for a short time, but there was little room for peak Koufax to be better, Waddell even at his best is something of a disappointment.

Waddell has the cooler cards too. His E93 as another poster mentioned is gorgeous. His T206 pitching pose and Turkey Red are also beauties. Planks T206 gets the press, but it’s not an aesthetic favorite to me. I own none of either pitchers cards..