PWCC - Sorry, Yet Again

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by BobC

I find it hard to believe they would/could do that, as it would definitely turn some people off from ever consigning with them.

You mean like people with low value cards?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

You mean like people with low value cards?

Or like, anyone. What would one be able to do about it if, say, your Goudey Ruth just somehow didn't get bid on for some unknown reason. WELP! Guess PWCC owns it now.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

You mean like people with low value cards?

Yes those are the ones.

But hey if someone wants to spend $15 total on a card that wouldn't sell for $10 through PWCC. I say good for them if they want it back instead of cutting their losses at way less.

[Snowman]

This isn't a new PWCC policy. They had the same policy when I read it in their TOS last year when they were selling on eBay. I was looking into consigning some of my cards (which I ended sending to elsewhere) and read it on their website.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. Instead of charging a listing fee, they just take ownership of the card if it can't even get a single bidder for $10. They don't want people sending in their $5 cards. It just creates more work for them but no revenue. It's a lot easier to just say the card has been forfeited to them as payment for their services than to deal with invoicing a customer and shipping the card back. It's just not worth their time to deal with. They probably take a huge box of all those borderline worthless cards over to a local card shop where they get $1 each for them.

I remember seeing a few cards listed in this last auction where I said, "PWCC is getting that one!" lol. One of them was something like a 1987 Topps Roger Clemens PSA 6. I was like, "WTF?" Card probably isn't even worth $1.

However, I'm pretty sure if it was a valuable card that somehow slipped through the cracks as a result of a glitch or misspelling or something like that, that they won't keep your card if you bring it to their attention. I highly doubt they're using it as a loophole to steal your $1,000 cards. We're talking about absolute junk cards here. It seems like a perfectly reasonable policy to me.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This isn't a new PWCC policy. They had the same policy when I read it in their TOS last year when they were selling on eBay. I was looking into consigning some of my cards (which I ended sending to elsewhere) and read it on their website.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. Instead of charging a listing fee, they just take ownership of the card if it can't even get a single bidder for $10. They don't want people sending in their $5 cards. It just creates more work for them but no revenue. It's a lot easier to just say the card has been forfeited to them as payment for their services than to deal with invoicing a customer and shipping the card back. It's just not worth their time to deal with. They probably take a huge box of all those borderline worthless cards over to a local card shop where they get $1 each for them.

I remember seeing a few cards listed in this last auction where I said, "PWCC is getting that one!" lol. One of them was something like a 1987 Topps Roger Clemens PSA 6. I was like, "WTF?" Card probably isn't even worth $1.

However, I'm pretty sure if it was a valuable card that somehow slipped through the cracks as a result of a glitch or misspelling or something like that, that they won't keep your card if you bring it to their attention. I highly doubt they're using it as a loophole to steal your $1,000 cards. We're talking about absolute junk cards here. It seems like a perfectly reasonable policy to me.

Yeah, if it’s the policy, it’s the policy. And there is some reasoning behind it. I just wondered originally how many of the owners of the 2800+ cards that didn’t sell realized they wouldn’t get them back. Even here, people didn’t believe what they read.


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[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This isn't a new PWCC policy. They had the same policy when I read it in their TOS last year when they were selling on eBay. I was looking into consigning some of my cards (which I ended sending to elsewhere) and read it on their website.

Thank you. I was thinking to myself that this wasn't new but couldn't remember for sure. Glad to know somebody else remembered it the same way.

Originally Posted by Snowman

I remember seeing a few cards listed in this last auction where I said, "PWCC is getting that one!" lol. One of them was something like a 1987 Topps Roger Clemens PSA 6. I was like, "WTF?" Card probably isn't even worth $1.

You'd be surprised sometimes. There was a 1989 UD Griffey PSA 2 or 3 - I forget the exact grade but very low - that sold recently for almost $1200. Turns out that some people collect "rainbows" of some cards - that is, they want every grade from 1-10. Well, low grades of that card are REALLY rare, so they sell for big money.

I doubt that's what's going on with that Clemens though That one is more likely just the WTF you mentioned

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Thank you. I was thinking to myself that this wasn't new but couldn't remember for sure. Glad to know somebody else remembered it the same way.



You'd be surprised sometimes. There was a 1989 UD Griffey PSA 2 or 3 - I forget the exact grade but very low - that sold recently for almost $1200. Turns out that some people collect "rainbows" of some cards - that is, they want every grade from 1-10. Well, low grades of that card are REALLY rare, so they sell for big money.

I doubt that's what's going on with that Clemens though That one is more likely just the WTF you mentioned

Wait, so you're telling me that I can take my EX-MT Griffey Upper Deck RC and attach it to the wall with a thumbtack after throwing it against the wall a few times and send it off to PSA and make money? Does this count as an "alteration"? Wait until BODA gets a hold of this new strategy! Bring in the feds!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Wait, so you're telling me that I can take my EX-MT Griffey Upper Deck RC and attach it to the wall with a thumbtack after throwing it against the wall a few times and send it off to PSA and make money? Does this count as an "alteration"? Wait until BODA gets a hold of this new strategy! Bring in the feds!

1s are easy to get - it's those sweet, sweet 2s, 3s and 4s that are tough

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Tabe

1s are easy to get - it's those sweet, sweet 2s, 3s and 4s that are tough

I sold/traded my upper deck Griffey psa 1 for a lot. Not quite psa 10 value but more than a couple 9’s

Need a update Soto Psa 3 to complete my 1-10 run. pop 1

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Yes those are the ones.

But hey if someone wants to spend $15 total on a card that wouldn't sell for $10 through PWCC. I say good for them if they want it back instead of cutting their losses at way less.

Here is the thing: it seems sometimes like some members of this board consider a $10 card as only fit to be folded in half and used to shim up a wobbly chair. To others, there is more inherent value there. So, I would be less dismissive of the consignor in this scenario and consider a couple of questions:

1. If the cards in question are of such limited value, why would PWCC accept consignment of them in the first place?
2. What does PWCC do with the forfeited cards? Are they consigning them to a seller like Greg Morris, for example, and keeping the proceeds for themselves?

I mean, I get that PWCC would rather deal with the cards that generate higher premiums. I don't fault them for that. Just as I don't fault Goldin for their focus on the high end. Define your niche and exceling in it is a sound business strategy. But, when I consider the range of answers to these two questions, I have to wonder about their commitment to being a good hobby citizen.

It would be helpful to see the list of the 3000 lots that were not bid on in the inaugral auction to see what we are actually talking about because, to a certain extent, I think we all may not be thinking the same thing.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

You mean like people with low value cards?

Yes, but who's to say those same people didn't also consign cards to them that did get bids over $10? At least most reputable AHs that I've ever heard of will tell you they have some type of minimum value or level, under which they will not accept and sell a card, or at least combine cards from the same consignor so the lot reaches their required minimum.

I would be stunned if of the 3,000 or so lots that apparently didn't sell in their inaugural auction, every one was with a completely unique and different seller, and/or a large percentage of those owners of the unsold lots didn't also have another lot(s) that did sell for at least the minimum bid. So why when setting up and initially putting the auction together didn't PWCC simply take and combine some of those eventually unsold cards with other cards of that same particular owner so they would get minimum bids, instead of just taking some of that owner's cards? It isn't like PWCC is ignorant as to what most cards are approximately worth and likely to sell for. And given the known fact that they had been the top seller of sportscards in the secondary market on Ebay, and therefore likely in the world, I could easily see some attorney making the argument that they, of anyone else in the world, would probably know what cards should sell for, and by not advising (or requiring) consignors to combine cards in lots to meet their own minimum bid requirement, they were at least negligent in the provision of advice and sales services to clients, or at worst, doing it intentionally so as to take advantage of unsuspecting or unknowing consignors/owners. And I can also see an attorney further arguing that once they had taken ownership of someone's cards through this forfeiture provision, what is to stop them from turning around and doing what they should have done for the original owner, combine several of the cards so the lot does go for at least their minimum bid, except now instead of just getting their normal seller's commission/fee, they get to keep 100% of the sales amount.