PWCC I want to bid but.... I just can't!

[danmckee]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-P...53.m1431.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-P...53.m1431.l2649

Look at the percentages of bids of the top 3 bidders of each of these auctions with this seller.....

NO THANKS!

[Fistner10]

I'm with ya, will never do it. Especially out of principle

[vintagetoppsguy]

It's been a couple weeks since we've had a PWCC thread. I guess we were overdue

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's been a couple weeks since we've had a PWCC thread. I guess we were overdue

LOL,but it has been a very long time since we had a Probstein thread. Rick should send PWCC a very nicely worded thank you card. He should send Betsy a huge check for all her help. The BS letter PWCC posted all over the net and Betsy making BS excuses has taken all the heat off Rick.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's been a couple weeks since we've had a PWCC thread. I guess we were overdue

The very fact that the issue comes up over and over again pretty much emphasizes the problem IMO.

[Snapolit1]

80% of my bids on eBay are prob with PWCC. I just don't see the higher grade cards on eBay very often I am looking for. Except the ones that are BINs in the stratosphere. I've bought Gehrig and Ruth's with PWCC at mid grade higher than 1s and As that have been sitting for years with bloated BINs.
I guess I am part of the problem.

[mantlefan]

Feel the Force, Dan. Don't do it!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

80% of my bids on eBay are prob with PWCC. I just don't see the higher grade cards on eBay very often I am looking for. Except the ones that are BINs in the stratosphere. I've bought Gehrig and Ruth's with PWCC at mid grade higher than 1s and As that have been sitting for years with bloated BINs.
I guess I am part of the problem.

Stuff trumps all, eh?

[irv]

The 26 bid retraction guy, which is supposedly against PWCC rules, won this Mantle card.
Take a look at his bidding percentage as well. I wonder if any money will be exchanging hands for this card?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...p2047675.l2557

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Forget PWCC, I HATE the fact that this printing issue has been legitimized. Almost as bad as the Gene Bakep.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Stuff trumps all, eh?

If I need a card and can get it for what I think is a good price, why do I care one whit what other people's motives are?

I assume there is just as much if not more fraud in most AH auctions. The only difference is you have a bit more transparency in eBay auctions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If I need a card and can get it for what I think is a good price, why do I care one whit what other people's motives are?

I assume there is just as much if not more fraud in most AH auctions. The only difference is you have a bit more transparency in eBay auctions.

Just observing, not judging, but there in a microcosm is why nothing will ever change in the hobby.

[Snapolit1]

Nothing will change because people are people. Many people will scheme and defraud. Not all of them. Is like trying to do away with insider stock trading. You could prosecute 100 people a day and people will try to do it. Or insurance fraud. Not everyone is a dishonest person but many are. Not sure why anyone would think baseball card collecting would be any different. Seems like auctions in any area run the risk of a lot of fraud.

[RedsFan1941]

whatever helps you sleep ...

[Neal]

PWCC is really one of the only games in eBay town that offer true auctions with really, really nice material for all collecting levels and interest. Really nice material.

I think that is the number one reason that the hammer prices are high/ridiculous. Probstein gets nice material, just not PWCC material. I was outbid on a Ruth the other night (closed at 5200) and thought that if the same card was offered by most everyone else, it would have a BIN of 6K plus.

Yes, there are some issues with PWCC auctions, but like Mr. Spaeth says, "stuff trumps all."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

The 26 bid retraction guy, which is supposedly against PWCC rules, won this Mantle card.
Take a look at his bidding percentage as well. I wonder if any money will be exchanging hands for this card?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...p2047675.l2557

They didn't even bother with an explanation this time. Oh well, if I were they I wouldn't either.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Neal

PWCC is really one of the only games in eBay town that offer true auctions with really, really nice material for all collecting levels and interest. Really nice material.

I think that is the number one reason that the hammer prices are high/ridiculous. Probstein gets nice material, just not PWCC material. I was outbid on a Ruth the other night (closed at 5200) and thought that if the same card was offered by most everyone else, it would have a BIN of 6K plus.

Yes, there are some issues with PWCC auctions, but like Mr. Spaeth says, "stuff trumps all."

debatable

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

debatable

+1 .....many people run auctions....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

whatever helps you sleep ...

What helps me to sleep is a PWCC thread. Bores my right to sleep. Good night! Zzzzzz!

[slipk1068]

People who consign with them are the problem.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

People who consign with them are the problem.

They are only part of the problem.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by bnorth

They are only part of the problem.

Who is john Galt?

Who is Ben North?

We are.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I always thought the problems were pretty simple. People who pervert the process, whether through actively abusing the system or allowing the abuse to occur.

I have consigned stuff to them and I didn't shill my items, they sold for reasonable prices, very low by PWCC standards. That was the eye-opener for me that there must be SOME reason the identical cards go for more for other consignors.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

80% of my bids on eBay are prob with PWCC. I just don't see the higher grade cards on eBay very often I am looking for. Except the ones that are BINs in the stratosphere. I've bought Gehrig and Ruth's with PWCC at mid grade higher than 1s and As that have been sitting for years with bloated BINs.
I guess I am part of the problem.

+++ Me too. In my world, the percentage bid thing is fake news. Means nothing. Focus on retractions, that what is killing e-bay.

I think some folks think we have endless hours to search e-bay for those half of one percent BINS that are priced within reason. Not happening.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I always thought the problems were pretty simple. People who pervert the process, whether through actively abusing the system or allowing the abuse to occur.

I have consigned stuff to them and I didn't shill my items, they sold for reasonable prices, very low by PWCC standards. That was the eye-opener for me that there must be SOME reason the identical cards go for more for other consignors.

Well you are likely the exception. I think many of their consignors and defenders shill their auctions. It is an illusion that they get higher prices for honest consignors.

[slipk1068]

I shouldn't read about problems in the hobby. I get too emotional. I just wish those who claim to want to help fix problems in the hobby, actually mean what they say.

[Touch'EmAll]

See a card you are interested in. Figure out how much you are willing to bid. Put in a bid. If you get it great. If you don't, you don't .

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

See a card you are interested in. Figure out how much you are willing to bid. Put in a bid. If you get it great. If you don't, you don't .

But what can be done about the fraud? Should we care? Fraud is reflected in some, likely most prices.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

I shouldn't read about problems in the hobby. I get too emotional. I just wish those who claim to want to help fix problems in the hobby, actually mean what they say.

I'm with you, and I fight to keep my little corner clean.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

See a card you are interested in. Figure out how much you are willing to bid. Put in a bid. If you get it great. If you don't, you don't .

Yep.

[ALR-bishop]

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Yep.

I'll still call em out in the end after the consignor sniped their hidden reserve. It seems like a rash if new bidders, with "retractionsunder 10" and less than 100 feedback are buying $1000 cards. It must be new money flowing into the hibby

[Snapolit1]

Sure many of these consigners exchange info with each other and "support" each others auctions. And if they look like they might accidentally "win" something they panic and then retract. I'm not sure what exactly PWCC can really do to eliminate all this. Sure they can ban particularly egregious examples of serial retractors.

As others have also pointed out, I have no doubt that retractions are done by some folks who really want to make it appear like an auction is polluted so others stay away. Lots of these guys have 3, 4, and 5 ebay accounts. Lots of game playing. Problem is the eBay platform and not PWCC.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by danmckee

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-P...53.m1431.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-P...53.m1431.l2649

Look at the percentages of bids of the top 3 bidders of each of these auctions with this seller.....

NO THANKS!

Just bidding with a few sellers doesn't bother me as much as the retractions. On these 2 shown I don't see a big problem. For the record I won 3 cards from PWCC a few days ago and all were well below my max snipe amounts. They weren't 30k cards though and no one was "protecting" them the way some auctions look to be manipulated.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

See a card you are interested in. Figure out how much you are willing to bid. Put in a bid. If you get it great. If you don't, you don't .

Sorry. Double post.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Sorry. Double post.

and of course I just now deleted your other one ...as you were deleting this one....try again?

[chaddurbin]

we all know fair market value...i'd rather snipe an amount i'm willing to buy (in the small off chance i'm being shilled) in pwcc or probstein then try to negotiate with a seller that has a 3-4x asking price of FMV. at least there's a chance i will own the card with the auction.

[T205 GB]

Am I the only one that see the erasure of the a. This is a altered card. Not sure of how to put it nicer. Reminds me of the Nodgrass T206 Variation that is so commonly altered

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Am I the only one that see the erasure of the a. This is a altered card. Not sure of how to put it nicer. Reminds me of the Nodgrass T206 Variation that is so commonly altered

I am pretty sure the Pancho cards are not altered. They are just a simple printing error. No experience, just a wild guess.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

It is not erased, an erasure wouldn't leave a perfect blue field, it is a print error.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Forget PWCC, I HATE the fact that this printing issue has been legitimized. Almost as bad as the Gene Bakep.

I agree the bakep is absurd as are the 1967 white streak cards but what should they call this? there are enough of these that i fee it absolutely should be catalogued in my opinion. I say this as someone who does not own a Herrer but does own probably 10-12 Bakep variations.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I agree the bakep is absurd as are the 1967 white streak cards but what should they call this? there are enough of these that i fee it absolutely should be catalogued in my opinion. I say this as someone who does not own a Herrer but does own probably 10-12 Bakep variations.

Butterfly Namath too.

[Exhibitman]

Hey Al that misprint Herrera rocks!

Admitted card whore here: I bid with PWCC and Probstein when the item is right. One bid via snipe. Won an item a few weeks ago from PWCC for substantially less than my snipe. Won a Probstein item the other day. also well below my max. Do I get shilled? Probably. Though it is far less likely with the items I go after (boxing cards). My competitors on the last several items I've won have been large feedback bidders with no retractions.

I think the shilling will ultimately hurt PWCC. It is gradually scaring away bidders. I know that for anything mainstream I would want from them I throw out a snipe well below market and let it play out. There are so many specimens of mainstream cards that there is no need to bid strong with PWCC. Another one will surface. Truthfully, the key is not to get invested emotionally in the outcome of the auction. It will drive you crazy otherwise.

[topcat61]

I think we all share some type of responsibility in fighting fraud in the hobby. What did Frank Nagy say -The Hobby tomorrow is only as good as we make it today?

[insidethewrapper]

If the sites would block anyone with more than 2 retractions that would help. If they get a new user id again only 2 retractions blocked again. Then it's up to ebay to stop additional usernames from the same address or computer address. Maybe on ebay a seller could block anyone with several changes in userid within a year. I'm not a computer guy so I don't know what else can be done. Any ideas from the computer software field ?

[edjs]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Then it's up to ebay to stop additional usernames from the same address or computer address.

The thing I see about this is where multiple adults live in the same place, but each has there own account. My sister has five adults live at her house, share a computer, but each have their own account. Same shipping address, same IP address, but legitimate different accounts.

[mark evans]

I am following a PWCC eBay auction in which a bidder with 80% of his bids with PWCC has made minimum incremental bids to reach and surpass existing high bid. What is the likelihood he is a shill bidder? Should I bring this to PWCC's attention?

[Tennis13]

Given all the smart experts on this board who could make sure the PSA and SGC holders are not tampered with, what stops the members of this board from starting an auction house? The distribution seems like the biggest hurdle, but if you are going to have members of this baord, it seems like the social networking there can get the collectors onboard. Then we would just have to find the brokers that lead to the non-hardcore collectors who seem to be buying cards for other reasons.

Seriously, why can't a few of us just team up and make an honest auction house? It can't be that difficult, can it?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Tennis13

Given all the smart experts on this board who could make sure the PSA and SGC holders are not tampered with, what stops the members of this board from starting an auction house? The distribution seems like the biggest hurdle, but if you are going to have members of this baord, it seems like the social networking there can get the collectors onboard. Then we would just have to find the brokers that lead to the non-hardcore collectors who seem to be buying cards for other reasons.

Seriously, why can't a few of us just team up and make an honest auction house? It can't be that difficult, can it?

Been done, It's called Love of The Game

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Been done, It's called Love of The Game

How is it doing? What are its biggest hurdles?