So do you think Kershaw retires?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

How do you view Greinke?

Definite HOF, a tier or two below Kershaw, I would have to think about ranking him but maybe somewhere in the 30s or could slip to the 40s because his ERA while solid isn't in elite range.

[packs]

I don't know. Pitchers aren't as glamorous as hitters and to truly be an elite A-level HOFer I think you have to be a guy like Pedro or Randy Johnson and if you're not, there's not a lot that separates you from everybody else.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know. Pitchers aren't as glamorous as hitters and to truly be an elite A-level HOFer I think you have to be a guy like Pedro or Randy Johnson and if you're not, there's not a lot that separates you from everybody else.

Look at Kerhsaw's record. He had a run of 7 or so dominant years, not sure why you feel he isn't in at least the Pedro category. Big asterisk of course postseason but I'm leaving that out of the equation.

A full point of ERA separates him from Greinke.

[packs]

Randy won 4 CY in a row and struck out almost 5,000 batters. Pedro has 3,000 K's, which is akin to 3,000 hits. Kershaw has no milestone.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Randy won 4 CY in a row and struck out almost 5,000 batters. Pedro has 3,000 K's, which is akin to 3,000 hits. Kershaw has no milestone.

Johnson clearly was better, but Johnson in my mind is a top 10 pitcher if not higher, never got the appreciation he deserved vis a vis Maddux and Clemens.

Pedro's great run is remarkably close to Kershaw's if you compare. And both won 3 Cys with 2 seconds during their runs.

[D. Bergin]

Not like Pedro was a dominant force in the Playoffs either.

One Red Sox manager once got fired for leaving Pedro in a game for too long. Which kind of boggled my mind at the time, considering Pedro was supposed to be the best pitcher on the planet.

Both have an excellent lifetime WHIP in the Playoffs, suggesting they tended to be the victim of some bad luck on batted balls, and neither were the horse to close out games that they started. At least not by the time that time of the year rolled around.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Not like Pedro was a dominant force in the Playoffs either.

One Red Sox manager once got fired for leaving Pedro in a game for too long. Which kind of boggled my mind at the time, considering Pedro was supposed to be the best pitcher on the planet.

Both have an excellent lifetime WHIP in the Playoffs, suggesting they tended to be the victim of some bad luck on batted balls, and neither were the horse to close out games that they started. At least not by the time that time of the year rolled around.

Clayton tended to be good for most of the games he pitched, which is probably why his WHIP isn't all that bad, but he just got shelled in big innings time after time which is why his ERA is just miserable.

The 2003 playoff game was terrible managing, Pedro had nothing left and everyone knew it except Pedro and Grady Little. Pedro intimidated him into leaving him in. Francona would have ignored him.