1921-22 . E220 National Caramel

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

David, what you said is true with respect to differentiating E220s from E121s. However, the E122 Am. Caramel cards also have the player's name "inside the frame of the picture," just like the E220s.

Well darn, I guess I'll have to flip them over and see if it says "American" or "National" Caramel.

[chadeast]

Thanks again, Leon.

[brianp-beme]

Besides the 'National Caramel' on E220 backs versus 'American Caramel seen on E122 backs, the E122 American card fronts have a coarse, cross hatch image (that I personally dislike in comparison to the clear photos seen in the E220 National Caramel set).

Here are a couple of E122 American cards as examples to compare with the previously shown E220 National Caramels (cards not mine).

Brian

[GeoPoto]

J. Clyde "Deerfoot" Milan. Outfielder for the Washington Senators in 1907-1922. 2,100 hits and 495 stolen bases in 16 MLB seasons. 1912 and 1913 AL stolen base leader, including a then record 88 in 1912. His career OBP was .353. Managed the Washington Senators in 1922. His best season may have been 1911 for the Washington Senators as he posted a .395 OBP with 58 stolen bases and 109 runs scored in 705 plate appearances.

From Milan's SABR biography: He was a left-handed hitter who batted .285 over the course of 16 seasons, and Clark Griffith called him Washington’s greatest centerfielder, claiming that he played the position more shallow than any man in baseball.

Yet Clyde “Deerfoot” Milan achieved his greatest fame as a base stealer. After Milan supplanted Ty Cobb as the American League’s stolen-base leader by pilfering 88 bases in 1912 and 75 in 1913, F. C. Lane of Baseball Magazine called him “Milan the Marvel, the Flying Mercury of the diamond, the man who shattered the American League record, and the greatest base runner of the decade.”

It was hyperbole, of course; Cobb re-claimed the AL record in 1915 by stealing 96 bases and went on to swipe far more bases over the decade than Milan, but Deerfoot stole a total of 481 during the Deadball Era, ranking third in the AL behind only Cobb (765) and Eddie Collins (564).

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1632819879

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

J. Clyde "Deerfoot" Milan. Outfielder for the Washington Senators in 1907-1922. 2,100 hits and 495 stolen bases in 16 MLB seasons. 1912 and 1913 AL stolen base leader, including a then record 88 in 1912. His career OBP was .353. Managed the Washington Senators in 1922. His best season may have been 1911 for the Washington Senators as he posted a .395 OBP with 58 stolen bases and 109 runs scored in 705 plate appearances.

From Milan's SABR biography: He was a left-handed hitter who batted .285 over the course of 16 seasons, and Clark Griffith called him Washington’s greatest centerfielder, claiming that he played the position more shallow than any man in baseball.

Yet Clyde “Deerfoot” Milan achieved his greatest fame as a base stealer. After Milan supplanted Ty Cobb as the American League’s stolen-base leader by pilfering 88 bases in 1912 and 75 in 1913, F. C. Lane of Baseball Magazine called him “Milan the Marvel, the Flying Mercury of the diamond, the man who shattered the American League record, and the greatest base runner of the decade.”

It was hyperbole, of course; Cobb re-claimed the AL record in 1915 by stealing 96 bases and went on to swipe far more bases over the decade than Milan, but Deerfoot stole a total of 481 during the Deadball Era, ranking third in the AL behind only Cobb (765) and Eddie Collins (564).

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1632819879

Thanks for sharing the card and the history. I did not know most of what you wrote.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Well darn, I guess I'll have to flip them over and see if it says "American" or "National" Caramel.

You really don't. The caption font is different on the two issues.

[sulldux]

Scan 1.jpg

Scan 2.jpg

Hi Brian--Excellent research on the E220 set and its variations. Ive attached scans of Type 3 variations for Turner Barber and Art Wilson. I think you can add those to your database. It's interesting that the Type 3's are relatively scarce. Only 14% of my set (30 of 211)

Regards, Chris Sullivan

[SteveS]

Here are some of my E122s for comparison. Despite the obviously crappy condition, they are some of my favorites because I got the entire lot for a quarter at one of my first card shows in the mid-'70s when I was about ten years old.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by SteveS

Here are some of my E122s for comparison. Despite the obviously crappy condition, they are some of my favorites because I got the entire lot for a quarter at one of my first card shows in the mid-'70s when I was about ten years old.

Are we sure those are e122s?
Here is an e122 I used to own...I always look for the darkened, captioned area on the front bottom AND the back to determine if it's these or E220s....

[SteveS]

Oops. I meant e121. Somebody posted the e122s above, and it got stuck in my head. Sorry for the mistake. Getting older sucks.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by SteveS

Oops. I meant e121. Somebody posted the e122s above, and it got stuck in my head. Sorry for the mistake. Getting older sucks.

My type of cards, even if they are E121.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by sulldux

Attachment 480650

Attachment 480651

Hi Brian--Excellent research on the E220 set and its variations. Ive attached scans of Type 3 variations for Turner Barber and Art Wilson. I think you can add those to your database. It's interesting that the Type 3's are relatively scarce. Only 14% of my set (30 of 211)

Regards, Chris Sullivan

Hi Chris, thanks for posting those two Type 3 cards...I have updated the lists. These lists wouldn't be as robust as they are if I had never received inputs from the Net54 community.

Type 2 and Type 3 are definitely the less commonly seen backs on these. Because of this, my brain wants to come up with a likely printing scenario for them. I think it possible that since 93 cards have been verified, that all 120 cards are available as Type 3. And since only 46 have been verified having Type 2 backs, that perhaps 60 is a nice logical amount to have been printed.

Of course with vintage card production, things are rarely straightforward, but my logical brain wants them to be, so I predict (and decree) that the E220 National Caramel set is likely the rare exception.

Brian