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#1
09-23-2021, 08:30 AM
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TOLSTOI cards
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Hi James (53toppscollector) However, I have never seen the Bender (trees) with a TOLSTOI back, So, I am inclined to agree with Pat R, that it is possibly a grading labelling error. I have annotated this entry on my list with a ? TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . 
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#2
09-23-2021, 09:40 AM
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Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.        .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)]. Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363 meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca). In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints. So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here. And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________ INDEX Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted. Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters. Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005 Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds" Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ? Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one ! Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ? Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ? Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards Posts #801 >> 823.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ? Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited) Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top Posts #1051 >> 1066.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top Posts #1068 >> 1070.....Imagine the T206 guys come alive, great read about the 1904 season Posts #1071 >> 1086....."pet peeves" regarding certain T206's...and tell us of your's ? Posts #1087 >> 1100.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1101 >> 1150.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1151 >> 1160.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1161 >> 1193.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb Posts #1194 >> 1198.....Questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a questionable pose Posts #1199 >> 1200....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave" Posts #1201 >> 1207....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave" Posts #1208 >> 1213.....Revisiting the 150-only Series.....and, let's see your cards Posts #1214 >> 1225.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card survey (Updated) Posts #1226 >> 1237.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card and related subjects Posts #1238 >> 1250....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them Posts #1251 >> 1262....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them Posts #1263 >> 1281.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards Posts #1283 >> 1294.....TRIVIA....Iffy call cost Team the Pennant. Who's the T206 player involved ? Posts #1295 >> 1300.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Posts #1301 >> 1302.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Post #1303....................INDEX Posts #1305 >> 1310.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Posts #1311 >> 1314.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1316 >> 1318.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1328 >> 1332.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1335 >> 1341.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1342 >> 1350.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do Posts #1351 >> 1376.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do Posts #1377 >> 1383.....Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me with your question.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists . Last edited by tedzan; 01-12-2022 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Updated INDEX.
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#3
08-22-2022, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
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#4
08-22-2022, 01:17 PM
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Wow, I'm shocked as well Pat. Can you post the scan (as long as the owner wouldn't mind)?
__________________
ThatT206Life.com
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#5
08-24-2022, 09:24 AM
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T206 REF....To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
. .... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT I had a great National Show in A/C.....the majority of cards I sold (as usual) were T206's. Graded T206's, and mostly Un-graded T206's. Rare backs and common backs. Talking T206's with customers, I was surprised to find, that many of the cards in their collections were Not-Graded. This does create some ambiguity as to the accuracy of pop reports reflecting the true numbers of many T206's. Most of these conversations were with collectors who had near-complete sets. As many of you know, I have completed 3 sets.....PIEDMONT....SOVEREIGN....SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 (no Wagner's). I would never consider stacking 1398 plastics containing all these T206's. The majority (97%) of them are in plastic sheets in binders. Especially arranged according to the 6 series of the T206 set. There are approximately 60 cards Graded among all 3 of these sets. Enough said.....please chime in and tell us your story regarding your preference.....T206 cards GRADED, or Not Graded ? ? Examples of the nicer looking Ungraded cards in my All - PIEDMONT set.  ---- ---- TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists .
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#6
08-24-2022, 09:54 AM
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I previously put together a near complete set of 1953 Topps graded PSA 5-7. I was within 10 cards or so of finishing. The cards were in 2 of those big BCW cardboard boxes, and I honestly never ever looked at the cards after I received them and put the slab in the perfect fit sleeves. They just went into the box and sat there.
When I got very close to completion of the set, I realized that I had spent exponentially more time looking through my Excel file, remembering what cards I needed, what grades things were in, what I had paid for them, than I had actually looking through my set and enjoying it. That was kind of the tipping point and why I ended up selling the set over 6 months or so. When I turned to T206, I decided that if I was going to invest the time and resources into collecting another big set, I needed to actually get more enjoyment out of the cards themselves, and a binder would be the only way for me to do that. That was easier for me to do because I decided I was going to focus on lower grade sets and sub-sets of T206. Looking back on it, it was the best decision I've made. I look through my T206 binder multiple times a week, every week. When a new card comes in, I flip through the binder pages until I get to the spot with the paper placeholder slip, then I insert the new card into its page, and then I continue flipping through the rest of the pages. If my focus was collecting the set in PSA 6 or higher, or I had cards worth $20k+, then I would probably leave them in the graded slabs. Buying lower grade examples removes this worry for me at this point.
__________________
My T206 research thread My T205 Census thread Want list: M101-2, T205s (American Beauties)
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#8
08-24-2022, 10:50 AM
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My T206's cards are close to 50-50 personally I prefer ungraded by far but I do sell and trade my cards and even though I think the gap has narrowed in most cases the difference in prices realized is enough to justify having them graded.
I removed several of my plate scratch cards and when I sold the doubles I kept the ungraded examples and sold the graded if I had one. img044.jpg
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#9
08-24-2022, 02:09 PM
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This is a topic i am currently struggling with...where to move from here in my t206 efforts....i have a 521 set, with most hof graded, but a mix of sgc new/ sgc old / psa slabs. my pref is new sgc slabs....also a mix of off and common backs. yet i have a second set (minus maybe 15) which is also a mix.....what to do? sell off extras and only do binder? do both graded and raw separately? i think i will create a separate post to get ideas.
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#10
08-24-2022, 06:47 PM
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To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)
Quote:
Pat Since 1999, I have been acquiring GRADED cards, the majority of which I have cracked open. I lost count years ago; however, somewhere I have stashed away more than 1000 "flips". Most of them are T206's. And if I have intentions of eventually selling (or trading) a given card, it stays in Graded plastic. If it's a "keeper" of any significance, I pop the card out and insert it in Hi-Quality mylar. I would guess that you have cracked open many, many more than 1000 graded cards.  TED Z T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists .
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