Using Trade At Card Shows

[Tony Gordon]

I am one of those National dealers that says "no" as soon as you ask me for a trade. With booth fee, employees, hotel, food, and gas, I'm deep in the hole long before the show even starts. I don't need cards to sell on eBay or shows down the line, I have a huge inventory. If it is a post-war card, I always have five to 10 of these cards anyone offers to trade. I need cash to cover my expenses. I need cash at the end of the show to determine whether it was a successful show and whether it was worth my time. I also need cash for all the deals I have lined up after the show.

In addition, in my 40 years of setting up at shows I can only recall maybe two occasions where the trade was worth my while. Usually someone will offer me four or five 1963 or 1964 Topps baseball league leaders cards in exchange for my 1963 Mantle. I mean, nine times out of 10, it is just a horrible offer.

I just don't bother any more, especially at the National, where I will probably lose a paying customer while wasting my time with someone offering a trade. You've got just a short time to catch the attention of the paying customer who will move on to the next table if you're too busy or seemingly ignoring them.

On the rare occasions I do engage in a trade, I have to consider the amount of money I have into the card and how much money I foresee earning on the eventual sale of the new card I obtain in the trade. It just rarely, if ever, works out in my favor.

Here is my advice for someone who believes they are offering something really good for trade: don't ask the dealer if he trades. The word "trade" is a red flag for dealers. Instead, show the dealer the card before saying anything and ask him if he is interested. If you have something good, not league leader cards, then the dealer will work something out with you.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

I am one of those National dealers that says "no" as soon as you ask me for a trade. With booth fee, employees, hotel, food, and gas, I'm deep in the hole long before the show even starts. I don't need cards to sell on eBay or shows down the line, I have a huge inventory. If it is a post-war card, I always have five to 10 of these cards anyone offers to trade. I need cash to cover my expenses. I need cash at the end of the show to determine whether it was a successful show and whether it was worth my time. I also need cash for all the deals I have lined up after the show.

In addition, in my 40 years of setting up at shows I can only recall maybe two occasions where the trade was worth my while. Usually someone will offer me four or five 1963 or 1964 Topps baseball league leaders cards in exchange for my 1963 Mantle. I mean, nine times out of 10, it is just a horrible offer.

I just don't bother any more, especially at the National, where I will probably lose a paying customer while wasting my time with someone offering a trade. You've got just a short time to catch the attention of the paying customer who will move on to the next table if you're too busy or seemingly ignoring them.

On the rare occasions I do engage in a trade, I have to consider the amount of money I have into the card and how much money I foresee earning on the eventual sale of the new card I obtain in the trade. It just rarely, if ever, works out in my favor.

Here is my advice for someone who believes they are offering something really good for trade: don't ask the dealer if he trades. The word "trade" is a red flag for dealers. Instead, show the dealer the card before saying anything and ask him if he is interested. If you have something good, not league leader cards, then the dealer will work something out with you.

Nice to hear information on this subject from a National dealer.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

I am one of those National dealers that says "no" as soon as you ask me for a trade. With booth fee, employees, hotel, food, and gas, I'm deep in the hole long before the show even starts. I don't need cards to sell on eBay or shows down the line, I have a huge inventory. If it is a post-war card, I always have five to 10 of these cards anyone offers to trade. I need cash to cover my expenses. I need cash at the end of the show to determine whether it was a successful show and whether it was worth my time. I also need cash for all the deals I have lined up after the show.

In addition, in my 40 years of setting up at shows I can only recall maybe two occasions where the trade was worth my while. Usually someone will offer me four or five 1963 or 1964 Topps baseball league leaders cards in exchange for my 1963 Mantle. I mean, nine times out of 10, it is just a horrible offer.

I just don't bother any more, especially at the National, where I will probably lose a paying customer while wasting my time with someone offering a trade. You've got just a short time to catch the attention of the paying customer who will move on to the next table if you're too busy or seemingly ignoring them.

On the rare occasions I do engage in a trade, I have to consider the amount of money I have into the card and how much money I foresee earning on the eventual sale of the new card I obtain in the trade. It just rarely, if ever, works out in my favor.

Here is my advice for someone who believes they are offering something really good for trade: don't ask the dealer if he trades. The word "trade" is a red flag for dealers. Instead, show the dealer the card before saying anything and ask him if he is interested. If you have something good, not league leader cards, then the dealer will work something out with you.

Very Good Advise and makes sense with all the upfront costs with the event and the need to focus on paying customers that the person wanting the trade may not realize

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

I am one of those National dealers that says "no" as soon as you ask me for a trade. With booth fee, employees, hotel, food, and gas, I'm deep in the hole long before the show even starts. I don't need cards to sell on eBay or shows down the line, I have a huge inventory. If it is a post-war card, I always have five to 10 of these cards anyone offers to trade. I need cash to cover my expenses. I need cash at the end of the show to determine whether it was a successful show and whether it was worth my time. I also need cash for all the deals I have lined up after the show.

In addition, in my 40 years of setting up at shows I can only recall maybe two occasions where the trade was worth my while. Usually someone will offer me four or five 1963 or 1964 Topps baseball league leaders cards in exchange for my 1963 Mantle. I mean, nine times out of 10, it is just a horrible offer.

I just don't bother any more, especially at the National, where I will probably lose a paying customer while wasting my time with someone offering a trade. You've got just a short time to catch the attention of the paying customer who will move on to the next table if you're too busy or seemingly ignoring them.

On the rare occasions I do engage in a trade, I have to consider the amount of money I have into the card and how much money I foresee earning on the eventual sale of the new card I obtain in the trade. It just rarely, if ever, works out in my favor.

Here is my advice for someone who believes they are offering something really good for trade: don't ask the dealer if he trades. The word "trade" is a red flag for dealers. Instead, show the dealer the card before saying anything and ask him if he is interested. If you have something good, not league leader cards, then the dealer will work something out with you.

Love it! Love getting the perspective from the other side of the table. Collectors don't want to hear this but it's the reality of the situation, lots of additional costs involved for the dealer.

[ClementeFanOh]

To Tony Gordon, et al-

I am amazed (but not surprised) by your attitude. A potential customer-
someone who could BUY from you in addition to asking to trade- is a
"waste of time"? Hmmm...think I found a problem. Judging a card(s)
before you have even seen it, and telling the holder which words to use
(don't use the word "trade"?) Think I found a second problem...

Bottom line is that offering to trade is a common practice at shows and on
sites like this one. The holder of the cards doesn't have ESP and, frankly,
does not care about a seller's expense list. All the collector knows is to ask
the dealer if they trade. It's not an insult, in my case it's not an attempt to
defraud the dealer, and it certainly isn't a "waste of time" merely to ask a
simple question that could benefit the dealer(!!). I buy a lot of cards and
trade as well, and one thing I've learned for sure is this: a dealer who
thinks he can dictate every detail to a person he depends on for business- a
potential customer- is in for a rude awakening. There's too much
competition for that approach. I am reminded of the Caddyshack line,
"Lighten up, Francis". Sheesh.

Looks like I picked the wrong time to check net54 Trent King

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

I am reminded of the Caddyshack line,
"Lighten up, Francis". Sheesh.

Looks like I picked the wrong time to check net54 Trent King

That's from Stripes, not Caddyshack.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by jayshum

That's from Stripes, not Caddyshack.

I thought it was from Airplane.

[Rich Klein]

I tend to take Tony's side on this argument because as a person who does time at both sides of the table I understand the issues. I pointed out my friend, with one booth and moderate expenses who spent 3K on his NSCC booth. Give him a 2nd booth and one person to help and it's 5K. You got to make up that 5K in some way and trading unless it's way in the dealer's profit is not going to help him with that.

I will tell you that about 95 percent of time I get offered cards there is not a chance in heck that I would ever be able to re-sell those cards at any sort of a profit. Granted I get offered newer cards at time since my table does feature both old and new but still,, the dollar figures asked for by most people just astound me. I usually tell people to remove 2 zeros from their price point and then we might talk about the real values.

What I would do sometimes is offer to purchase cards and then tell the person walking around you now have the option to either buy the card (s) from me or from other people in the room. In a sense you turned your cards into trade but just not directly

N.B. Now this is the rare example of a situation working out. A couple of Kyle's fine DFW shows ago (the smaller one he runs) I took a card in trade because the price point was OK and it seemed like a cool card to have in my showcase. That specific card, and I knew not a darned thing about it, was the 1st card to sell at the latest Allen show and for what I was asking.

Shocked me how quickly it moved and yes, to answer some questions, it was a modern card and while no specific comp was available the general comp worked out. So one can bend and can look but about 95 percent of the time I know better than to expect much of anything.

I will also re make the point that a show with a lower price point for the dealers might make them more accessible for trading. I know when I ran my shows pre-Covid two tables at my one-day shows cost all of $75. Well, I can assure you that with a $75 expenditure, dealers might be much more willing to take trades than for a 3-5K expenditure.

[ClementeFanOh]

Hi Rich- I don't believe we have ever spoken on net54, good to meet you.
Your story about accepting a card in trade at a show, then turning it around
later at auction, is exactly what I'm talking about. Dealers who say "no" out
of hand will never experience that, and- I keep pointing this out- also lose
a potential customer who may have bought something else from them apart
from trade. A couple dealers have essentially stated they judge a trade offer,
and the collector, without any knowledge of that person or their cards. As a
buyer, I can only say that the opposite holds true. The buyer/trader/customer
also judges you- and there are LOTS of other sellers he can engage.

Trent King

[Tony Gordon]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

To Tony Gordon, et al-

I am amazed (but not surprised) by your attitude. A potential customer-
someone who could BUY from you in addition to asking to trade- is a
"waste of time"? Hmmm...think I found a problem. Judging a card(s)
before you have even seen it, and telling the holder which words to use
(don't use the word "trade"?) Think I found a second problem...

My attitude is based on my experience. I set up at card shows most every weekend and in my experience the folks that want to trade are almost never good customers. The good customers are the ones that offer cash, not trade. I have a large following at my local shows, no shortage of customers. Thankfully success as a dealer is not even remotely based on whether the dealer accepts trade or not. In my 40 years of setting up at card shows, I found that success comes from inventory and pricing, not trades. Now, more than ever, I turn people away who offer trades and am having a banner year. You can dismiss my advice all you want but if you really want to trade and have a good item, you need to avoid the word "trade" because 9 times out of 10, in my experience, when someone asks me to trade, they are offering me five beat up and water-logged Jim Bunnings for a clean Koufax rookie. You can smell the mold on the Bunnings when they pull them out. No thanks.

[Johnny630]

My usual response when someone asks if I'm interested In trade is maybe, may I please see what you have. When shown I either consider or kindly hand them back and say I'm sorry these are nice cards but not for me. That's all.

No hard feelings it's just business. I'm much more apt to trade or trade and cash when a card has nice eye appeal/centering and is a super star, Mantle, Mays, Jackie ect. I can see both sides from Trent and Tony, as a seller I do agree with Tony that 9x's out of 10 it does not work for me.

[ClementeFanOh]

To Tony Gordon- I found your reply to me almost by accident, assumed
this topic was exhausted and was wrong. This is my final go round...

It sounds to me like you have a grim outlook. At a show, ANY action for a
dealer is better than no action. I've been a collector for 40 years and
attended many shows, and I've never seen a show where a dealer is so busy
he has to beat back attendees with a stick. We have all been to shows where
a couple dealers draw more traffic than the others, so approaching a dealer
with less traffic at his table, is hardly an imposition. It is in the dealer's best
interest to treat a potential customer with some modicum of respect (ie, not
telling them how best to phrase their remarks , or indicating they have
worth only if they ask no questions and give him money). I have also never
approached a dealer with "moldy" cards in the hope of trading for one of his
that is beyond the price point. In other words, your characterization of
people who merely propose trading as being a "waste of time" is insulting,
wrong, and also possibly self defeating (remember, the guy who proposes
trade has money as well- I'm one of them).

So, in conclusion I am definitely dismissing your advice. There's too much
selling competition for me to subject myself to rude treatment by a
stranger. I've said it before on this site in different context, but it merits
repeating- the folks on the other side of your table are a tiny bit important
to the hobby. 'Nuff said, Trent King

[Tony Gordon]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

To Tony Gordon- I found your reply to me almost by accident, assumed
this topic was exhausted and was wrong. This is my final go round...

It sounds to me like you have a grim outlook. At a show, ANY action for a
dealer is better than no action. I've been a collector for 40 years and
attended many shows, and I've never seen a show where a dealer is so busy
he has to beat back attendees with a stick. We have all been to shows where
a couple dealers draw more traffic than the others, so approaching a dealer
with less traffic at his table, is hardly an imposition. It is in the dealer's best
interest to treat a potential customer with some modicum of respect (ie, not
telling them how best to phrase their remarks , or indicating they have
worth only if they ask no questions and give him money). I have also never
approached a dealer with "moldy" cards in the hope of trading for one of his
that is beyond the price point. In other words, your characterization of
people who merely propose trading as being a "waste of time" is insulting,
wrong, and also possibly self defeating (remember, the guy who proposes
trade has money as well- I'm one of them).

So, in conclusion I am definitely dismissing your advice. There's too much
selling competition for me to subject myself to rude treatment by a
stranger. I've said it before on this site in different context, but it merits
repeating- the folks on the other side of your table are a tiny bit important
to the hobby. 'Nuff said, Trent King

No, I don't have a grim outlook. I look forward to setting up at shows each weekend. I usually have a lot of fun, but I am a realist. Most every time someone offers a trade it is not fair. Like I said, I am at shows just about every weekend and this is what occurs week after week. I am often very busy. Many times during each show there is a line of people waiting to speak to me. You can come out and see for yourself this Sunday where I will be set up at the Buenavista Banquet Hall in Milwaukee.

Guys that want to trade are almost always bad customers. It is not just me. Dealers let out a collective groan when they see certain customers walk into the room, these are the customers that want something for nothing. Maybe you have never approached a dealer with moldy cards but I guarantee you somebody this Sunday is going to offer me either moldy cards, creased up cards, junk era cards and the like in exchange for something like a Bob Gibson rookie. It happens at each and every show.

I'm not trying to insult any one. I am just explaining my regular experience as a dealer. You are free to ignore my perspective.

[1954 topps]

A dealer may be more willing to trade if your offering a big card for several smaller cards but not the other way around. Say you have a Jackie Robinson and your willing to trade it for an Ed Mathews, Warren Spahn, Whitey Ford, Phil Rizzuto, Preacher Roe, and Johnny Podres. Let's say book value works out fairly close for both parties.

From the dealers perspective, it's a lot easier to sell the Jackie than the six other cards to make the same money. Chances are he can move the Jackie at the same show, but he's probably unlikely to sell all 6 of the others. So if time is money you make that deal as the dealer and take your profit to reinvest elsewhere.

Best advise, sell your cards yourself or through consignment well before a large show so you have cash. That's how you'll get yourself the best deal.

[ClementeFanOh]

1954 Topps- I agree with you on the notion that a dealer is more likely to
trade a handful of lesser value cards, for one higher value. However,
your point about selling the card before a show so "you have cash", isn't
the case (at least for me). I offer to trade if, for example, the other card
isn't in my normal wheelhouse, if the card isn't quite the grade I wanted, or
sometimes if I think the sale price is so high that negotiation won't work. There
are lots of valid reasons to trade that have nothing to do with lack of cash
(which is indeed a reason some wish to trade, I am sure Trent King

[ClementeFanOh]

Jay Shumsky- thanks for the correction. Hope my actual point got through.

Trent King

[ClementeFanOh]

Jay Shumsky- I'm in the process of negotiating a trade, so I am distracted

Trent King

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Jay Shumsky- thanks for the correction. Hope my actual point got through.

Trent King

I like the Airplane reference as well.

I get what you are saying, but I also understand the dealer side as well (I'm not a dealer, but I've talked to enough of them over the years about trades). After hearing so many ridiculous offers for trades, most of them just aren't worth their time listening to if they are busy and could lose a potential sale to someone else. It's kind of like the trades people call into sports talk shows and suggest their team should make only to be told by the host that team x isn't going to give up their potential Hall of Famer who is still only 28 for 2 middle relievers. GMs don't want to be bothered listening to offers like that any more than dealers do when someone offers to trade 100 commons for a Mickey Mantle.

[ClementeFanOh]

Jay- "Airplane" is my favorite comedy, nice catch...

Let me say that I completely agree that it's not in a dealer's best interest
to consider a trade of his 1972 Topps Hank Aaron for 500 NM Ron Oester
rookies. That's not really my point, though. It's up to the show attendee
to demonstrate to the dealer that he has quality, either by showing the
cards he has up front, or by explaining his intentions ("I've got high grade
72 Topps examples of Mays, Bench, Carew, and Rose I can offer for your
72 Aaron"). If the dealer cuts that off at the knees, he has no idea what he
is missing AND may miss the opportunity to come out ahead. If the
customer has any pride when a dealer is so dismissive, the dealer will also
miss out on any possibility that the customer will buy any other card(s) from
the dealer- "if he won't even let me finish a sentence, he's not getting my
money". The smallest combination of hobby knowledge and basic courtesy
is all I look for when I am at shows, and if a dealer can't provide these
basics, we have zero chance of doing any business. Trent King

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by 1954 topps

A dealer may be more willing to trade if your offering a big card for several smaller cards but not the other way around. Say you have a Jackie Robinson and your willing to trade it for an Ed Mathews, Warren Spahn, Whitey Ford, Phil Rizzuto, Preacher Roe, and Johnny Podres. Let's say book value works out fairly close for both parties.

From the dealers perspective, it's a lot easier to sell the Jackie than the six other cards to make the same money. Chances are he can move the Jackie at the same show, but he's probably unlikely to sell all 6 of the others. So if time is money you make that deal as the dealer and take your profit to reinvest elsewhere.

Best advise, sell your cards yourself or through consignment well before a large show so you have cash. That's how you'll get yourself the best deal.

Trades like this are the main way I've had success when trading with a dealer at a show. One even told me what you are saying, that it would be easier for him to sell the one card I was offering in trade than the multiple cards I was getting from him.

While it may seem to be poor customer relations to just flat out say no to trades, I'm guessing that so many offers that are made to dealers are so clearly not worth it, that it is just easier for them to just say no from the start. The advice to show the dealer what you have first makes sense to me since they then know if they even want to entertain a trade offer later.

[rugbymarine]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

Here is my advice for someone who believes they are offering something really good for trade: don't ask the dealer if he trades. The word "trade" is a red flag for dealers. Instead, show the dealer the card before saying anything and ask him if he is interested. If you have something good, not league leader cards, then the dealer will work something out with you.

This is very helpful. Thank you for the perspective, Tony!