ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by 1954 topps

PWCC already has their own platform for selling and they've already established themselves as the largest auction house in the business. People will swarm to their site every auction like they always do because collectors be crazy. Regardless of shill bidding or not people will still buy from them in future auctions because they have it all. If you're worried about shill bidding just pick a max number in your head and don't go over it just like any other auction.

I believe eBay was already aware PWCC has intentions of leaving their platform soon as they've already tested having their own auctions. The fees are high and they can do it in-house for less. So they're mad and throwing them under the bus, probably for good reasons but about a decade late. Gee thanks eBay for trying to portray being the golden child here, you haven't been a partner in crime the whole time at all...bye ebay, you won't be missed. It's not that hard to run this business. Oh Hello Sirius and your weekly auctions!

I've bought from PWCC many times just like the next collector and will continue to do so because they have what I'm looking for. Meanwhile I end up recycling dozens of catalogs every year from all the auction houses that don't have anything to add to my collection.

Examine your cards carefully when you get them regardless of who you're buying from. PWCC or elsewhere, it's your money, you better know what you're getting.

Good luck. Solid strategy.....lmao. Yeah, those big auction house auctions really have nothing in them for anyone it appears..... Why even subscribe if you feel that way?

Peace, Mike Papariello

PS Honestly....when you say this "Meanwhile I end up recycling dozens of catalogs every year from all the auction houses that don't have anything to add to my collection."
then people kinda just stop listening to you. Just sayin'

[53toppscollector]

lol REA isn't pussyfooting around. From an email I just received:

DONE WITH THE VAULT? CONSIGN NOW FOR SPECIAL RATES!

We're offering the lowest rates in our history for your Vault consignments! See below for details on this extremely limited-time offer!

For any new consignments originating from a Vault address and committed to REA by September 1, we're offering the following incredible rates:

[Snapolit1]

I think it's human nature to think "hey, those guys probably shill their own auctions and pass things off better than they really are . . . . and that's terrible . . . .but I'm pretty sure that's never been the case with anything I've bought. . . ."

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

lol REA isn't pussyfooting around. From an email I just received:

What about their long time consigners ??? What about us? Shouldn’t we get this rate too? Maybe they don’t want my consignments anymore.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

lol REA isn't pussyfooting around. From an email I just received:

That's freaking great LOL.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

That's freaking great LOL.

I'd have trouble sleeping tonight if I had a $100,000 card in a vault in Oregon. Just sayin.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'd have trouble sleeping tonight if I had a $100,000 card in a vault in Oregon. Just sayin.

I've a ways to go before I'm that type of collector. But agreed.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

lol REA isn't pussyfooting around. From an email I just received:

Seems to me as though PWCC would have a very strong lawsuit on their hands if ebay in fact does not have proof of PWCC employees shill bidding in their own auctions. If the shill bidders are in fact just consignors or other random eBay accounts, then their accusations are textbook defamatory resulting in real damages to PWCC's bottom line. If this is the case, I expect we will see eBay having to pay PWCC a substantial sum of money in the inevitable lawsuit on the horizon.

However, on the other hand, if eBay can prove that PWCC employees or its ownership are in fact actively shill bidding on their auctions, then PWCC is likely in for some extreme turbulence ahead. Although if this were the case, I have to ask, why wouldn't they just state that in the email rather than using the cryptic "individuals associated with PWCC" engaged in shill bidding? It just doesn't make sense. To me this smells like eBay deliberately trying to tarnish the brand of their newest competitor.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Seems to me as though PWCC would have a very strong lawsuit on their hands if ebay in fact does not have proof of PWCC employees shill bidding in their own auctions. If the shill bidders are in fact just consignors or other random eBay accounts, then their accusations are textbook defamatory resulting in real damages to PWCC's bottom line. If this is the case, I expect we will see eBay having to pay PWCC a substantial sum of money in the inevitable lawsuit on the horizon.

However, on the other hand, if eBay can prove that PWCC employees or its ownership are in fact actively shill bidding on their auctions, then PWCC is likely in for some extreme turbulence ahead. Although if this were the case, I have to ask, why wouldn't they just state that in the email rather than using the cryptic "individuals associated with PWCC" engaged in shill bidding? It just doesn't make sense. To me this smells like eBay deliberately trying to tarnish the brand of their newest competitor.

Before PWCC decides to litigate they should remember that discovery is a bitch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Before PWCC decides to litigate they should remember that discovery is a bitch.

So is having a losing hand, which I suspect they have.

They will also have difficulty proving damages, assuming they don't also have a breach of contract claim which I am guessing they don't. If they lose business from this point forward, far more likely attributable to not being on ebay than to an email message saying they shill bid.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Seems to me as though PWCC would have a very strong lawsuit on their hands if ebay in fact does not have proof of PWCC employees shill bidding in their own auctions. If the shill bidders are in fact just consignors or other random eBay accounts, then their accusations are textbook defamatory resulting in real damages to PWCC's bottom line. If this is the case, I expect we will see eBay having to pay PWCC a substantial sum of money in the inevitable lawsuit on the horizon.

However, on the other hand, if eBay can prove that PWCC employees or its ownership are in fact actively shill bidding on their auctions, then PWCC is likely in for some extreme turbulence ahead. Although if this were the case, I have to ask, why wouldn't they just state that in the email rather than using the cryptic "individuals associated with PWCC" engaged in shill bidding? It just doesn't make sense. To me this smells like eBay deliberately trying to tarnish the brand of their newest competitor.

I doubt PWCC sues. No way it wants all those records to become public. It will come up with some BS rationale for not suing, like it's time to move on.

On the flip side I'd be shocked if ebay sent that message without ample supporting evidence. This isn't some guy making a spontaneous remark, it's a company with a 50 billion dollar market cap.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Good luck. Solid strategy.....lmao. Yeah, those big auction house auctions really have nothing in them for anyone it appears..... Why even subscribe if you feel that way?

Peace, Mike Papariello

PS Honestly....when you say this "Meanwhile I end up recycling dozens of catalogs every year from all the auction houses that don't have anything to add to my collection."
then people kinda just stop listening to you. Just sayin'

Here's my view:

The big auction houses seldom have any cards that I could actually afford. If they do, they're usually inserted into a lot with a bunch of other cards I may or may not need/want, bringing the total lot price up to a level I can't afford. I still look at the auctions to see what's there, in the hope that just maybe, they have something I could shoot for.

PWCC on the other hand (and other companies like them), have all levels of cards.....high value/low value; the full spectrum. They also allow you to combine your winnings each month, paying for all of them once each month's auction is done. This works out great for me, as payments for PWCC auction winnings are due the first week of each month, right after payday. They make it very quick and easy. I've been buying from them for several years, and have never had any reason to complain.

Regarding the allegations against them over the last three or so years, I do not discount them; they are serious and need to be looked at, but for me, I try to "buy the card, not the holder"; meaning I look carefully at the card before bidding, and I absolutely do not bid an amount I am uncomfortable with. If I win it, great; if not, I'll just keep looking. Sure, I might get shilled (that's a danger in any auction in any hobby/category, not just card collecting), but as long as I'm not paying more than I'm comfortable with, I consider it good.

Steve

[Johnny630]

I don’t think Pwcc will do as well on this new platform for the following reasons

On eBay when PWCC was listing buyers have the option of using a credit card with a money-back guarantee/time frame, also CC charge backs. In many major auction houses there are no credit cards, no money back guarantee, with all sales final terms of sale, how comfortable will you be buying from them under those terms?? Especially considering their past numerous sales of cards ousted as trimmed by BODA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I don’t think Pwcc will do as well on this new platform for the following reasons

On eBay when PWCC was listing buyers have the option of using a credit card with a money-back guarantee/time frame, also CC charge backs. In many major auction houses there are no credit cards, no money back guarantee, with all sales final terms of sale, how comfortable will you be buying from them under those terms?? Especially considering their past numerous sales of cards ousted as trimmed by BODA.

The inevitable short term run on the Vault will not help. That said, he is very innovative and very hard-working, and nobody is going to care about the shill bidding accusations, so I wouldn't bet against him yet.