ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

to all of those who are saying Ebay will miss PWCC's money:

PWCC did around 200 million in sales on Ebay last year. The rumor is they pay somewhere between 1 and 3% to Ebay. That's $2 - $6 Million for the year. In 2020 Ebay did over 10 BILLION in revenue.

For those of you saying Ebay doesn't want the competition from PWCC:

Unless PWCC is opening a site where users can sell their own items, it's not competition, it's just another auction company.

Big players in the hobby are fly specks in the world of fortune 500 companies. Does that mean Ebay didn't do this out of spite? Hell no. It could be very similar to an old tenet of racketeering. You make an example of one guy so the next guy doesn't get any bright ideas.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

to all of those who are saying Ebay will miss PWCC's money:

PWCC did around 200 million in sales on Ebay last year. The rumor is they pay somewhere between 1 and 3% to Ebay. That's $2 - $6 Million for the year. In 2020 Ebay did over 10 BILLION in revenue.

For those of you saying Ebay doesn't want the competition from PWCC:

Unless PWCC is opening a site where users can sell their own items, it's not competition, it's just another auction company.

Big players in the hobby are fly specks in the world of fortune 500 companies. Does that mean Ebay didn't do this out of spite? Hell no. It could be very similar to an old tenet of racketeering. You make an example of one guy so the next guy doesn't get any bright ideas.

It's true that PWCC's money is not very much relative to eBay as a whole. But if the FBI announced that it was pressing charges or investigating eBay for colluding with PWCC on defrauding bidders, that would result in huge and very unwelcome negative publicity that would have a big effect on all of eBay. They certainly want to avoid that, so my guess is that the FBI showed eBay the evidence they have on PWCC, and eBay is scrambling to distance themselves from PWCC and show the Feds that they are not going to tolerate that behavior any more.

[savedfrommyspokes]

From PWCC's site:

PWCC MARKETPLACE/EBAY UPDATE
PWCC Marketplace/eBay Update
We will no longer be selling through eBay and all PWCC listings will be removed from eBay immediately. Premier Auction listings will be unaffected as they are listed on the PWCC platform and the August Premier Auction will close on August 21st. The September Premier Auction is still scheduled to start on September 1st. To read our official statement click here.

What is the update on PWCC and eBay and what's impacted?
We will no longer be selling through eBay and all PWCC listings will be removed from eBay. Premier Auction listings will be unaffected and the August Premier Auction will close on August 21st. The September Premier Auction is still scheduled to start on September 1st.

What is PWCC's stance on shill bidding?
Shill bidding is a bid placed without the intention to honor it - regardless of who placed the bid. As outlined in our Marketplace Tenets PWCC has clear rules that no one may place a bid unless that bid is intended to win the item - not consignors, friends of consignors, people who own other versions of the card, etc. PWCC has never engaged in nor condoned the practice of shill bidding or manipulating the card market. PWCC is proud of the work we do to ensure a trusted marketplace and vehemently deny eBay's claims regarding shill bidding.

Can I still sell my cards with PWCC?
Since March, our team of developers has been focused on building and improving the Premier Auction experience which is currently live and has always been independent of eBay.

Sales through PWCCMarketplace.com will be the foundation for the future Monthly Auction, Flash Auction, and Fixed Price Marketplace. The initial design of these marketplaces is in place, and we’re committed to make them the most user-friendly and trusted tools in the industry. Although this platform shift happened sooner than we planned, we are excited to relaunch the marketplaces on our own website soon.

Currently, PWCC currently conducts Premier Auction each month for cards with a market value over $25,000 and we can always look to help you find a buyer privately.

I have cards up for bid in the August Monthly Auction. What will happen to my cards?
All cards that have sold in the August Monthly Auction will complete the sale process as normal, and you will receive proceeds from the sale on the payout day. Any item that did not yet sell in the August Monthly Auction will be removed from eBay and will be placed in your Vault free of charge and listed in the PWCC-hosted Monthly Auction, which will be available soon.

I submitted cards for the September Monthly Auction. What will happen to these cards?
September Monthly Auction items will be placed into your Vault, free of charge, ready to be sold in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly Auction, which will be available soon. If you do not already have a Vault Account, we will help you create one.

What if I'd like my cards returned to me?
Should you prefer to have your unsold cards returned, please contact customer service and we will do so at our expense.

My card(s) sold in the first few days of August Monthly Auction. Will I still be paid out?
Yes, all cards that have closed will complete the collections process, and if paid by the buyer, will be paid out in full. If the buyer does not remit payment, items will be placed into your Vault, free of charge, ready to be sold in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly Auction which will be available soon.

Can I still use Flash Auction?
Flash Auctions are currently on hold until we can soon offer them again on our own website.

Can I use Fixed Price to sell cards?
The Fixed Price Marketplace is currently on hold until we can soon offer them again on our own website.

What happens if I have a card currently live in Flash Auction or live on Fixed Price?
All items previously listed for a Flash Auction have been placed back into your Vault, ready to be sold under our future Flash Marketplace. All items previously listed for Fixed Price will soon be placed back into your Vault, ready to be sold under our future Fixed Price Marketplace.

What happens to items in my Vault?
Nothing. Those items are still safe and fully-insured, stored in our secure facility, operated exclusively by PWCC.

What are the fees to remove items from the Vault?
Fees to fulfill out of the Vault remain unchanged and are outlined here. Existing promotional rates also remain unchanged.

Can I still send cards from eBay to the Vault?
Yes you can. We are still accepting Vault submissions, and we are still honoring the FREEVAULT promo until Sept. 30th. Items can still be stored in our Vault, ready to be sold either in our existing Premier Auction or in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly, Flash, or Fixed-Price Marketplaces.

Can I still take out a loan through PWCC Capital?
Yes, we would be pleased to consider you for a loan. Contact our Customer Service Team via email or chat to start the process.

Is the FreeVault Promo still going to be accepted for safely storing cards?
Yes. The FREEVAULT promo is live until Sept. 30th and items can still be stored in our Vault, ready to be sold either in our existing Premier Auction or in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly, Flash, or Fixed-Price Marketplaces.

What happens to the current cards in the August Premier Auction?
Premier Auction is hosted on our site and has no affiliation with eBay. Premier Auction will continue to run business as usual.

Will the Premier Auction still end on Saturday, August 21 at 7pm?
Yes, Premier Auction is still scheduled to end at 7PM PT on August 21st with extended bidding happening immediately after.

I want to keep my Premier Auction purchase in the Vault. Is that service still available?
Yes. If you win an item in Premier Auction then you have the option of storing it for free in the Vault.

How can you assure me that shill bidding is not taking place in the current and future Premier Auctions?
As part of our Marketplace Tenets, PWCC and our staff and affiliates have no visibility into any bidders' maximum bid. This information is stored in a third-party service and no one from PWCC or any affiliates of the sellers can view it, by specific design.

All bidders must be approved to participate in the Premier Auction. To apply, submit a brief application with your eBay ID and two references if applicable (it takes less than two minutes). Our team will review your application, contact you within 24 hours if additional information is needed, and notify you of your approval. This process can take several days, so please submit your application early.

What happens when somebody is caught placing a bid they don't intend to honor, known as shill bidding?
Our Marketplace Trust team is extremely proactive in monitoring bidding. We have placed permanent blocks on any bidder who does not pay. Refer to the Marketplace Tenets for more details on our monitoring procedures.

What will happen to my cards once they're pulled from eBay? WilI I get a notification that they have indeed been removed?
All Fixed Price and Flash Auction listings that did not sell and were removed from eBay will automatically be placed back into your Vault. All unsold items in our August Monthly Auction and submissions received for future auctions will be placed in your Vault, free of charge, ready to be sold either in our existing Premier Auction or in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly, Flash, or Fixed-Price Marketplaces which will be available soon.

What can I expect from PWCC in terms of future plans and operations?
We are excited to roll out our own, proprietary Marketplaces specifically designed to meet the unique needs of this market and continue to offer excellent services to our clients.

Can I trust PWCC as a business moving forward?
Absolutely. We know trust is built over time and through a consistent experience. It is our hope that we have earned that trust from you and that we will continue to do so with our new platform. We are deeply committed to ensuring the bidding environment you deserve.

[packs]

I'm in the you can't compete with eBay camp. I don't see why eBay would ban a seller doing business on their platform out of a fear that the seller will overtake eBay. There's no practical way to do that and you'd never touch eBay's overall revenue. I don't see how that could be a real motivating factor. The loss in business is easily absorbed by millions of knick knacks posted every day for the rest of eternity.

[rjackson44]

what a shock

[mrreality68]

Long and interesting statement from PWCC.

Very Well Written

The reality they said it the way they said it to cover themselves and try to inspire confidence and trust in them (regardless if it works or not)

The used ebay to build their brand and customer base and now that they are bigger they wanted to build their own web platform do their own auctions and control there way and maximize there profits.

Ebay may have sped up the timeline once they decided enough was enough and they all go their merry ways

[Mitochondria]

Is there a way to block certin Sellers on eBay while searching for items. I often have saved search terms that look for general categories of cards, but I have not seen a method of blocking certain Sellers if they meet search criteria. Thanks

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Can I trust PWCC as a business moving forward?
Absolutely. We know trust is built over time and through a consistent experience. It is our hope that we have earned that trust from you and that we will continue to do so with our new platform. We are deeply committed to ensuring the bidding environment you deserve.

Trust us moving forward? You can even trust us in reverse!

[dealme]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Trust us moving forward? You can even trust us in reverse!

I’m a bit late and working my way through this thread, but holy sh*t Joe Isuzu just showed up in a Net54 post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

From PWCC's site:
Can I still take out a loan through PWCC Capital?
Yes, we would be pleased to consider you for a loan. Contact our Customer Service Team via email or chat to start the process.

I have been expecting the bubble to pop for a while now, but was starting to think it might have just been wishful thinking since I have been effectively priced out of the market for Roberto Clemente and Nolan Ryan rookie cards for a while now. However this quote above from PWCC renews my faith that, at some point soon, the part of the hobby pool that I swim in will come back to me.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

I have been expecting the bubble to pop for a while now, but was starting to think it might have just been wishful thinking since I have been effectively priced out of the market for Roberto Clemente and Nolan Ryan rookie cards for a while now. However this quote above from PWCC renews my faith that, at some point soon, the part of the hobby pool that I swim in will come back to me.

Hey Jeff,
I have a Ryan Rookie I'll make you a deal on, It's in the Swingin' 60's submission so it may be a few months before it comes back.

[Exhibitman]

What I am waiting for is for PSA to remove all PWCC results from its database of auction prices. Their crap is just so fraudulent. I was tracking the PSA 9 Mayweather RC and found that PWCC 'sold' the same exact card (by cert #) every two months like clockwork, and for vastly different prices. Do they really expect me to believe that a guy who bought the card for over $11K decided to sell it for under $6K in sixty days? Yeah and I have a bridge for sale too, really nice, goes from Brooklyn to Manhattan.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What I am waiting for is for PSA to remove all PWCC results from its database of auction prices. Their crap is just so fraudulent. I was tracking the PSA 9 Mayweather RC and found that PWCC 'sold' the same exact card (by cert #) every two months like clockwork, and for vastly different prices. Do they really expect me to believe that a guy who bought the card for over $11K decided to sell it for under $6K in sixty days? Yeah and I have a bridge for sale too, really nice, goes from Brooklyn to Manhattan.

Boom exactly I mentioned the same for VCP to hopefully remove Pwcc from their databases.

[1954 topps]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What I am waiting for is for PSA to remove all PWCC results from its database of auction prices. Their crap is just so fraudulent. I was tracking the PSA 9 Mayweather RC and found that PWCC 'sold' the same exact card (by cert #) every two months like clockwork, and for vastly different prices. Do they really expect me to believe that a guy who bought the card for over $11K decided to sell it for under $6K in sixty days? Yeah and I have a bridge for sale too, really nice, goes from Brooklyn to Manhattan.

Same thing happens with Probstein123, 13k one month, next month same cert number sells for 7k. Lost half its value in a month. Funny how that happens.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

It's true that PWCC's money is not very much relative to eBay as a whole. But if the FBI announced that it was pressing charges or investigating eBay for colluding with PWCC on defrauding bidders, that would result in huge and very unwelcome negative publicity that would have a big effect on all of eBay. They certainly want to avoid that, so my guess is that the FBI showed eBay the evidence they have on PWCC, and eBay is scrambling to distance themselves from PWCC and show the Feds that they are not going to tolerate that behavior any more.

I seriously doubt the FBI is showing anyone any evidence in an ongoing investigation.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I seriously doubt the FBI is showing anyone any evidence in an ongoing investigation.

So, eBay just decided this is a bad business association?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I seriously doubt the FBI is showing anyone any evidence in an ongoing investigation.

Originally Posted by jchcollins

So, eBay just decided this is a bad business association?

There is no scenario where the FBI came to ebay with "the evidence" they have against PWCC in an ongoing criminal investigation. The most they would have done was subpoena specific documents or transaction records. Ebay might try to infer from there whatever they want, but the FBI isn't showing them any evidence whatsoever.

Ebay could have made the decision to cut ties with PWCC for a multitude of reasons. The best we can do is speculate and use our critical thinking skills to try to narrow down which of those reasons are the most likely.

[Johnny630]

I wonder How many people have called to get their cards out of the Pwcc vault?

Optics Look Bad for them very bad…don’t know how well they’re gonna compete with Other Major AH’s that have their own stand alone platforms.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I wonder How many people have called to get their cards out of the Pwcc vault?

Optics Look Bad for them very bad…don’t know how well they’re gonna compete with Other Major AH’s that have their own stand alone platforms.

For sure, there's a run on the vault right now. They're definitely panicking.

Their success or failure will all be determined by how smoothly their upcoming weekly auctions run on their own platform. I'm guessing it'll be slow at first but that the hammer prices will still be strong for the vast majority of items. And if their rates are friendly enough to consignors, then they could easily steal a TON of business from ebay. Sellers just want top dollar for their items, reasonable fees, and relatively quick turnaround times. The market as a whole doesn't care about all this drama. They will overlook it in a second if PWCC provides a better selling experience in the end. If PWCC yours to get greedy though, charging something like 11% to compete against ebay's 12%, then they might jump the shark. But if they play it smart, assuming they're not actually guilty of ebay's shill bidding claims, then I think they'll come out ahead. Time will tell. Stay tuned...

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I wonder How many people have called to get their cards out of the Pwcc vault?

Optics Look Bad for them very bad…don’t know how well they’re gonna compete with Other Major AH’s that have their own stand alone platforms.

I can tell you for sure at least 1 person. Currently "pending". I actioned this last night after I heard the news. I'll update as soon as I have them back in my hands! Not many cards at all thank god!

Peace, Mike

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by Snowman

There is no scenario where the FBI came to ebay with "the evidence" they have against PWCC in an ongoing criminal investigation. The most they would have done was subpoena specific documents or transaction records. Ebay might try to infer from there whatever they want, but the FBI isn't showing them any evidence whatsoever.

Ebay could have made the decision to cut ties with PWCC for a multitude of reasons. The best we can do is speculate and use our critical thinking skills to try to narrow down which of those reasons are the most likely.

Just another thought, but if the FBI asked eBay questions, it could likely be understood where they are headed and thus eBay cut ties. A lot of questions agents ask they already know the answer to.


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[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by BCauley

Just another thought, but if the FBI asked eBay questions, it could likely be understood where they are headed and thus eBay cut ties. A lot of questions agents ask they already know the answer to.

I can fully understand eBay cutting ties. Where I struggle is in eBay "explaining" the reason is because of "shill bidding".

eBay could have:

• Cut ties with no announcement, which would be the typical path for most sellers they terminate

• Cut ties with an announcement that they are simply cutting ties

I struggle with them making an announcement as to why eBay cut ties with PWCC. This leads me to believe there is something more.