OT: Michael Jordan Mania

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

All these conspiracy theories crack me up. I'm not saying market manipulations never happen, but reading this thread would give someone the impression that every new high is a fake sale. Surely, that's not the case.

The 840k Jordan RC was a real sale by a well known high end collector who posted proof of purchase on social media. He paid "more than it's worth" because he believed it to be one of the best, if not the best, 10s in existence. Sorta like a MBA Black or PWCC S. It's like BGS's black label super premium pricing. Some people care about that stuff. The market clearly does. So did this guy. It's not a fake sale.

There are 328 PSA 10s in existence, and probably half of those have early PSA flips and if cracked out today would get 9s. This is the 52 Mantle of basketball cards. They're not exactly super common. Not in high grade at least.

More than it's worth is one of the understatements of all time. PWCC S indeed. From a man who claims not to be a professional grader, no less. Give me a deleted break.

[packs]

It's not just more than it's worth. There's over half a million dollars difference from what the cards were selling at average and this 800K sale. Even if you wanted the "best of the best" how can it cost a half million dollars? We're talking about almost imperceptible differences between 10's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It's not just more than it's worth. There's over half a million dollars difference from what the cards were selling at average and this 800K sale. Even if you wanted the "best of the best" how can it cost a half million dollars? We're talking about almost imperceptible differences between 10's.

Not only that, but assuming an honest auction, there must have been a second bidder who wanted it ALMOST as much? Too much to believe.

[packs]

Another good point. And I think it's important to remember we're talking about 10's only. Cards that have been deemed "perfect" for lack of a better term. It's not a half million dollars difference between a 9.5 and a 10.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Another good point. And I think it's important to remember we're talking about 10's only. Cards that have been deemed "perfect" for lack of a better term. It's not a half million dollars difference between a 9.5 and a 10.

Theater of the absurd.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not only that, but assuming an honest auction, there must have been a second bidder who wanted it ALMOST as much? Too much to believe.

That's the part I find most incredible. A buy-it-now would seem relatively easy to believe. Straight auction? No way.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Eric72

That's the part I find most incredible. A buy-it-now would seem relatively easy to believe. Straight auction? No way.

I don't think it's hard to understand at all. The card has provenance, it was just pulled from a pack so no doctoring, and it is arguably the best of all PSA 10 Jordan rookiess. If you are a high end collector do you want to be one of 100 or do you want to have the #1 best example?



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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I don't think it's hard to understand at all. The card has provenance, it was just pulled from a pack so no doctoring, and it is arguably the best of all PSA 10 Jordan rookiess. If you are a high end collector do you want to be one of 100 or do you want to have the #1 best example?



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And who has examined all the PSA 10 Jordans to be in a position to make any such determination? This isn't like saying the card is the best of the FOUR 52T Mantle 10s. How many are there again? Oh wait, 319. I respect your knowledge but that doesn't sound at all persuasive to me.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And who has examined all the PSA 10 Jordans to be in a position to make any such determination? This isn't like saying the card is the best of the FOUR 52T Mantle 10s. How many are there again? Oh wait, 319. I respect your knowledge but that doesn't sound at all persuasive to me.

PWCC said it's the best Jordan 10 they've every had in their possession. To some, perhaps to most, that is meaningless. But to others, that means everything. PSA doesn't have a "black label" premium 10 like BGS does, but if they did, just imagine what the single most sought after card in all of basketball would sell for at auction. The buyer is a well known collector with an insane collection worth countless millions of dollars. It's a real sale. Some people just want to overpay to be #1. This guy is one of those people. He thinks this is the best Jordan rookie that exists. It is what it is.

As far as other Jordan 10s go, I have seen numerous slabs of these where there's no way it would get a 10 today if cracked and resubbed. The ones that are listed on eBay in perpetuity are often of this ilk. Most collectors know that those are really just 9s in a 10 holder, so they avoid them or they sell for quite a bit less. Not all 10s are the same, and in the high-end market the variance in sales price is extremely wide, just like it is with vintage baseball. I pointed out recently that in that exact same PWCC Premium Auction there were two 52 Mantles that sold, one was a 1.5, the other was a 3.5. The 1.5 sold for MORE than the 3.5 because of eye appeal. How do you explain that? It's not because the 1.5 was shill bid up. I know because I bid on the 1.5 myself. I was the 2nd highest bidder on it. It's the same thing with the Jordan RC. It's all about perception and eye appeal. You can say the guy was conned by the PWCC "Superior" sticker and provenance story of it being the only PSA 10 that PSA has given on a Jordan RC in over a year, or the inside stories about the graders at PSA calling everyone in to check out the card when it was there because they said it was the best one they'd ever seen and that there was video footage of it being pulled from the box. Maybe all that stuff is just nonsense marketing, but it mattered to some people and those people paid through the nose for it. The buyer is happy. I say let him be. No need for the conspiracy theories here.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And who has examined all the PSA 10 Jordans to be in a position to make any such determination? This isn't like saying the card is the best of the FOUR 52T Mantle 10s. How many are there again? Oh wait, 319. I respect your knowledge but that doesn't sound at all persuasive to me.

Peter I have a ton of respect for you as well and have learned a lot from your posts. I sure don't expect to persuade you on anything once you've formed an opinion on it.

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