The Cleveland Guardians? Yes, It's Official

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

From the perspective of Great Britain, the Founding Fathers were traitors.

+1

History is generally written by the victors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

+1

History is generally written by the victors.

What's the saying, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's the saying, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Something like that. There's really no black or white anymore, everything is shades of grey.



You can fool some of the people all of the time....

And all of the people some of the time....

But you can't fool Mom!

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by BobC

Something like that. There's really no black or white anymore, everything is shades of grey.



You can fool some of the people all of the time....

And all of the people some of the time....

But you can't fool Mom!

This is your briefest post ever.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

This is your briefest post ever.

No it isn't!!!

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by BobC

No it isn't!!!

.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's the saying, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Peter, I wish you could’ve seen when my moms side of the family (Catholic) met my dad’s side (Protestant) started discussing Oliver Cromwell.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

+1

History is generally written by the victors.

There is nothing anyone could possibly say to defend slavery, but from my study the rift between North and South was more complex than slavery.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is nothing anyone could possibly say to defend slavery, but from my study the rift between North and South was more complex than slavery.

+1

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is nothing anyone could possibly say to defend slavery, but from my study the rift between North and South was more complex than slavery.

People would have to actually read and study though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BCauley

People would have to actually read and study though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was fortunate to have a history teacher who wrote extensively on the Civil War and what led up to it and I became interested in the subject. I think back to the (alleged) showdown between Andrew Jackson and John Calhoun which I'm not sure had much to do with slavery and more with the direction the country was going in terms of federalism vs states rights.

Jackson: Our federal union, it must be preserved.
Calhoun: Our union, next to our liberty, the most dear.

Still has echoes today.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is nothing anyone could possibly say to defend slavery, but from my study the rift between North and South was more complex than slavery.

Absolutely agree. Truth is, there has been slavery going back thousands of years in the human race, and that involved people of all colors and nationalities. But today you don't really hear anyone still complaining about the Egyptians, Romans, Vikings, or any other dominant groups that had slavery as a given and accepted part of their culture in the past.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by BobC

Absolutely agree. Truth is, there has been slavery going back thousands of years in the human race, and that involved people of all colors and nationalities. But today you don't really hear anyone still complaining about the Egyptians, Romans, Vikings, or any other dominant groups that had slavery as a given and accepted part of their culture in the past.

Or the slavery that still exists today in parts of Africa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaver...mporary_Africa

The continent of Africa is one of the regions most rife with contemporary slavery. Slavery in Africa has a long history, within Africa since before historical records, but intensifying with the trans-Saharan and Indian Ocean slave trade and again with the trans-Atlantic slave trade; the demand for slaves created an entire series of kingdoms (such as the Ashanti Empire) which existed in a state of perpetual warfare in order to generate the prisoners of war necessary for the lucrative export of slaves. These patterns have persisted into the colonial period during the late 19th and early 20th century. Although the colonial authorities attempted to suppress slavery from about 1900, this had very limited success, and after decolonization, slavery continues in many parts of Africa despite being technically illegal.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Or the slavery that still exists today in parts of Africa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaver...mporary_Africa

The continent of Africa is one of the regions most rife with contemporary slavery. Slavery in Africa has a long history, within Africa since before historical records, but intensifying with the trans-Saharan and Indian Ocean slave trade and again with the trans-Atlantic slave trade; the demand for slaves created an entire series of kingdoms (such as the Ashanti Empire) which existed in a state of perpetual warfare in order to generate the prisoners of war necessary for the lucrative export of slaves. These patterns have persisted into the colonial period during the late 19th and early 20th century. Although the colonial authorities attempted to suppress slavery from about 1900, this had very limited success, and after decolonization, slavery continues in many parts of Africa despite being technically illegal.

Am aware of that, and it is surprising that doesn't get a much larger audience or vocal protest in the world today, at least not as much as there still seems to be for similar issues from 160 years ago. Also today, this modern slavery is not considered as normal and accepted by any of the major nations of today's world.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by BobC

Am aware of that, and it is surprising that doesn't get a much larger audience or vocal protest in the world today, at least not as much as there still seems to be for similar issues from 160 years ago.

Agree. To me, the most startling omission is the role black African slave owners played in selling their slaves to the traders who brought them to this country.

The slaves that were brought here weren't captured by a bunch of white guys running around Africa. They were captured and sold by other (black) African people. So how is it all white people are somehow held responsible, while all black people are granted victim status?

There were a lot of white people who vehemently opposed slavery, and a lot of black people who trafficked in it (and still do today according to the Wikipedia article I linked.)