Let's talk about Hall of Fame candidates who have been "neglected"

Peter_Spaeth · #1 07-06-2021, 07:42 PM

I have never understood how Grich gets so high up in those WAR/JAWS ratings. Here are his other Baseball Reference metrics.

Something does not add up for me.

Black Ink
Batting - 8 (355), AverageHOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink
Batting - 40 (784), AverageHOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 42 (504), LikelyHOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 32 (305), AverageHOFer ≈ 50

And even more telling:
Similar Batters
1.Toby Harrah (908.6)
2.Brandon Phillips (898.2)
3.Jay Bell (894.8)
4.Bret Boone (892.6)
5.Jhonny Peralta (884.1)
6.Asdrubal Cabrera (883.7)
7.Chase Utley (882.6)
8.Sal Bando (879.9)
9.Ian Kinsler (876.1)
10.Travis Fryman (871.6

Jason19th · #2 07-07-2021, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have never understood how Grich gets so high up in those WAR/JAWS ratings. Here are his other Baseball Reference metrics.

Something does not add up for me.

Black Ink
Batting - 8 (355), AverageHOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink
Batting - 40 (784), AverageHOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 42 (504), LikelyHOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 32 (305), AverageHOFer ≈ 50

And even more telling:
Similar Batters
1.Toby Harrah (908.6)
2.Brandon Phillips (898.2)
3.Jay Bell (894.8)
4.Bret Boone (892.6)
5.Jhonny Peralta (884.1)
6.Asdrubal Cabrera (883.7)
7.Chase Utley (882.6)
8.Sal Bando (879.9)
9.Ian Kinsler (876.1)
10.Travis Fryman (871.6

Two factors explain Grich�s war vs other metrics

1. 16.8 of his war is from defense

2. He was very consistent. Never had a bad year and never had a crazy good year. Therefore he was always valuable but didn�t lead the league in much

Tabe · #3 07-07-2021, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason19th

Two factors explain Grich�s war vs other metrics

1. 16.8 of his war is from defense

2. He was very consistent. Never had a bad year and never had a crazy good year. Therefore he was always valuable but didn�t lead the league in much

Also the fact that 2B was not exactly an offensive position during Grich's career. He had a lot of 13 homer, 50 RBI seasons that just don't look all that impressive.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 07-07-2021, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

Also the fact that 2B was not exactly an offensive position during Grich's career. He had a lot of 13 homer, 50 RBI seasons that just don't look all that impressive.

Maybe the numbers don't support me but I would rather have Jeff Kent or Chase Utley in the Hall than Grich. Whitaker too.

perezfan · #5 07-08-2021, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe the numbers don't support me but I would rather have Jeff Kent or Chase Utley in the Hall than Grich. Whitaker too.

I like Grich a lot, but also prefer Kent and Utley over him for the Hall. I would put Whitaker on a par with Grich. I prefer a smaller HOF, but would not mind if all four of them eventually got in. Some of the recent inductees would bug me more than all 4 of those second baggers getting in.

MacDice · #6 07-08-2021, 12:46 AM

Buck ONeil

Mike D. · #7 07-08-2021, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

I like Grich a lot, but also prefer Kent and Utley over him for the Hall. I would put Whitaker on a par with Grich. I prefer a smaller HOF, but would not mind if all four of them eventually got in. Some of the recent inductees would bug me more than all 4 of those second baggers getting in.

I think it comes down to offense vs. defense, peak vs longevity, with a touch of era/recency bias. That being said, looking at Utley and Kent�s raw numbers, they do feel more like HOFers. I honestly think all four belong.

My borderline personal 2B case is Pedroia. Borderline WAR total, but pretty much done at 33 due to injury. Strong rate stats for the position, ROY, MVP, WS wins, great defense, and a fun �gritty underdog gamer� vibe.

Kutcher55 · #8 07-08-2021, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

I think it comes down to offense vs. defense, peak vs longevity, with a touch of era/recency bias. That being said, looking at Utley and Kent�s raw numbers, they do feel more like HOFers. I honestly think all four belong.

My borderline personal 2B case is Pedroia. Borderline WAR total, but pretty much done at 33 due to injury. Strong rate stats for the position, ROY, MVP, WS wins, great defense, and a fun �gritty underdog gamer� vibe.

Pedroia needed a couple of more years. If that dirtball Machado hadn't Ulf Samuelson'd him, he would have been a HOFer.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Baseball Hall of Fame "Shoebox Treasures" Exhibit	sixpointone	Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)	1	04-05-2019 04:21 PM
1977 Exhibits "Baseball's Great Hall of Fame"	Bram99	Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once.	1	01-27-2019 10:39 PM
1970 article on "Card Collector's Hall of Fame"	trdcrdkid	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	12	03-04-2016 03:12 PM
SOLD!!!! "HALL of FAME HEROES" COMPLETE 44 CARD SET! Ends Sun 12-8!	GoldenAge50s	Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once.	5	12-08-2013 09:24 PM
2013 Hall of Fame "Special" Induction 7/28...any Net54 members attending?	orator1	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	21	07-28-2013 06:38 PM