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  #1  
Old 05-28-2021, 05:07 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Interesting trivia about 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards...show us some of these rare gems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post

I'm curious what the other "1910 Coupon club" members opinion is of the information in the journal.

I have already talked with some of them, and every one of them said your journal proves nothing. Furthermore, the absence on it of a major T206 back like
POLAR BEAR discredits it completely as being any kind of reliable timeline gauge. Other than indicating it was generated prior to the POLAR BEAR print run.



The reason for the brown caption could be because the majority of the tobacco cards have a brown/black caption.


I'm still amazed that someone as interested in the tobacco sets as you hasn't looked at this journal and all the information in it.

How many times have I told you that I LOOKED it over ! ! And, it is useless information, as far as I am concerned.


Since you brought up the Polar Bears again and I had said in the past much like the Coupons they seem to stand out from the other t206 brands (Demmitt and O'Hara, scrap tobacco in pouch form, in my research they don't match up with the other brands as far as print flaws) here's some information in the journal.

Pat, you are smarter than this. This remark is totally incongruous regarding these two brands.



Several t206 brands including Piedmont, Sovereign, Sweet Caporal, and Old Mill state in the packing & shipping instructions all states except Ohio.

Here's one of the Sweet Caporal pages that says 60 days for all states except Ohio.
Pat

My research regarding the subjects on my simulated sheet of the 1910 COUPON cards indicates that these T206s were the first group of 350-only Series cards.
If so, this places them in the timeline of Spring 1910.

Several players in this group of 48, were in transition. For example......

Byrne traded from St. Louis NL to Pittsburgh.....Aug. 1909

Mowrey traded from Cinc. to St Louis Natl.....Aug. 1909

Rossman retired.....Sept. 1909

And, there are others that were in transition about this time.

For the most part, American Lithographic (ALC) was pretty darn good about reflecting team changes on the T206 cards. NO WAY would ALC depict Byrne & Mowrey
still with their old teams, nor Rossman (who had retired back in 1909) in your hypothetical 1913 - 1915 scenario.

In fact in the T215-1 set, Byrne's cards are captioned with St Louis and also with Pittsburgh.

Speaking about your "1913 - 1915 scenario", how come you didn't answer my question to you in my previous post regarding.....
Where is the BLUE INK CAPTIONS on the 1910 COUPON cards if (as you suggest) they were printed much later than 1910 ? ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-28-2021 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #2  
Old 05-28-2021, 05:41 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Pat

My research regarding the subjects on my simulated sheet of the 1910 COUPON cards indicates that these T206s were the first group of 350-only Series cards.
If so, this places them in the timeline of Spring 1910.

Several players in this group of 48, were in transition. For example......

Byrne traded from St. Louis NL to Pittsburgh.....Aug. 1909

Mowrey traded from Cinc. to St Louis Natl.....Aug. 1909

Rossman retired.....Sept. 1909

And, there are others that were in transition about this time.

For the most part, American Lithographic (ALC) was pretty darn good about reflecting team changes on the T206 cards. NO WAY would ALC depict Byrne & Mowrey
still with their old teams, nor Rossman (who had retired back in 1909) in your hypothetical 1913 - 1915 scenario.

In fact in the T215-1 set, Byrne's cards are captioned with St Louis and also with Pittsburgh.

Speaking about your "1913 - 1915 scenario", how come you didn't answer my question to you in my previous post regarding.....
Where is the BLUE INK CAPTIONS on the 1910 COUPON cards if (as you suggest) they were printed much later than 1910 ? ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
First of I did give you one possibility for the brown caption even though I have no idea how that proves they were printed in 1910 and secondly
you're contradicting yourself with the Byrne caption. He's depicted on one of his type 3 coupons with St. Louis a team he hadn't played on since 1909.
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  #3  
Old 05-28-2021, 07:05 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Rob
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Default opinion on Coupons Bobby Byrne...

Here are Bobby Byrne's 3 Coupon cards. He has one in each series. Many of the 1919 Type 3 cards are tribute cards of players that had retired. In many cases like Bridwell, who managed Houston in 1919, there is no team designation given. My grandfathers grew up in Central Louisiana and East Texas, and both were Cardinals fans. Since these cards were distributed in an area with Cardinals fans, the producers decided to include a tribute card in 1919 for Byrne, who retired in 1917. Ames and Miller are also in the 1919 set as Cardinals and played for St. Louis in 1919.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t213-1byrne900.jpg (48.6 KB, 127 views)
File Type: jpg t213-2byrne901.jpg (47.1 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg t213-3byrne902.jpg (43.4 KB, 127 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1byrneb905.jpg (52.4 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg t213-2byrneb904.jpg (52.8 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg t213-3byrneb903.jpg (51.6 KB, 130 views)
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
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  #4  
Old 05-28-2021, 07:40 PM
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Rob, I used Byrne as an example because Ted pointed him out, there
are a lot of inaccurate team designations in the t206 set
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  #5  
Old 05-28-2021, 08:51 PM
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RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Rob
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Hi, Pat, I'm not understanding. Wasn't Byrne on St. Louis circa 1910? I have only casually followed the debate. Am I wrong to characterize Ted's position as "they look like T206, therefore they are T206." I know Leon and others say, "Burdick said T213, therefore they are T213." Do you think T213-1 Coupons are a type of Broder, an unlicensed knock-off of a T206, released at a later time, say 1912? Here's a Bridwell from 1919...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t213-3bridwell906.jpg (49.2 KB, 120 views)
File Type: jpg t213-3bridwellb907.jpg (59.9 KB, 119 views)
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
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  #6  
Old 05-29-2021, 03:27 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Hi, Pat, I'm not understanding. Wasn't Byrne on St. Louis circa 1910? I have only casually followed the debate. Am I wrong to characterize Ted's position as "they look like T206, therefore they are T206." I know Leon and others say, "Burdick said T213, therefore they are T213." Do you think T213-1 Coupons are a type of Broder, an unlicensed knock-off of a T206, released at a later time, say 1912? Here's a Bridwell from 1919...
Rob, Ted's stance is the type 1's were printed in 1910 and I feel there is
sufficient evidence that they weren't printed during the t206 printings.

I don't think it matters in either opinion but Byrne was with Pittsburgh
in 1910 he was traded from St. Louis to Pittsburgh on August 19th 1909.
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  #7  
Old 05-29-2021, 03:51 PM
jggames jggames is offline
Jason
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Hi, Pat, I'm not understanding. Wasn't Byrne on St. Louis circa 1910? I have only casually followed the debate. Am I wrong to characterize Ted's position as "they look like T206, therefore they are T206." I know Leon and others say, "Burdick said T213, therefore they are T213." Do you think T213-1 Coupons are a type of Broder, an unlicensed knock-off of a T206, released at a later time, say 1912? Here's a Bridwell from 1919...
Might be a good guess actually. It’s pretty easy to find newspaper articles and advertisements from 1909 to 1912 that include most of the American Tobacco and Liggett & Myers brands - American Beauty, Drummond (Drum), Carolina Brights, Old Mill, Piedmont. It’s pretty hard to find anything before 1912 that mentions “Coupon” brand.

Last edited by jggames; 05-29-2021 at 03:52 PM.
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  #8  
Old 05-29-2021, 04:39 PM
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Rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jggames View Post
Might be a good guess actually. It’s pretty easy to find newspaper articles and advertisements from 1909 to 1912 that include most of the American Tobacco and Liggett & Myers brands - American Beauty, Drummond (Drum), Carolina Brights, Old Mill, Piedmont. It’s pretty hard to find anything before 1912 that mentions “Coupon” brand.
I wonder where T214 goes in the discussion. Liggett & Myers is on the backs of them with the factory 8 designation, like some T213-3.

Also, thanks for clarifying, Pat. I guess I need to check to see which backs Byrne was included in, and see when they were released.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t214demmitt913.jpg (62.9 KB, 99 views)
File Type: jpg t214demmittb914.jpg (64.4 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg t213-3doylehobback.jpg (77.8 KB, 99 views)
File Type: jpg t213-3doylehob452.jpg (78.4 KB, 98 views)
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
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  #9  
Old 05-29-2021, 04:40 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Interesting trivia about 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards...show us some of these rare gems

Quote:
Originally Posted by jggames View Post
Might be a good guess actually. It’s pretty easy to find newspaper articles and advertisements from 1909 to 1912 that include most of the American Tobacco and Liggett & Myers brands - American Beauty, Drummond (Drum), Carolina Brights, Old Mill, Piedmont. It’s pretty hard to find anything before 1912 that mentions “Coupon” brand.

Jason

In 1909, the New Orleans Times-Picayune published an announcement that the American Tobacco Co. was introducing a new brand named COUPON to be produced in New Orleans.

Do some some research and you'll find the newspaper clippings of this fact.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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