Hey, pennant guys

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I offered the seller $100 for it. It's quite a bit dirtier than it appears in that pic but super rare. He didn't reply and it ended up selling for $43 (not to me). Oh well...

That's a nice one. I'm guessing it could be cleaned up to look much better.

[ooo-ribay]

Would it be safe to say that artwork on pennants pretty much disappeared in the mid-60s? By "artwork," I mean stadiums, players, etc. and not logos or stand alone helmets.

Here's an evolution of Giants pennants. !962 NL Champs with the cartoon font; 1960's pennant with same font, showing an un-enclosed Candlestick; early 70's pennant showing Candlestick enclosed; stiff, synthetic pennant with leftover graphics and, finally, a 1970's logo only pennant.

I really can't think of any Giants pennants past the mid-60's with any new graphics. They are all just logos and print. Is it the same with other teams?

[perezfan]

Most teams had fresh logos and artistry through 1968 or so. Then in 1969, it became regulated, boring and corporate. By 1970, all artistry and creativity were gone.

There are some rare exceptions, such as that series with the Rangers (Batting Cowboy), Mariners (Mermaid), Brewers (Barrel Guy) and Padres (Friar Head). I suppose that group would be the “last hurrah” for originality.

Really sad... I wonder what became of the artists, and hope they landed on their feet (AdFlag guy not withstanding).

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Most teams had fresh logos and artistry through 1968 or so. Then in 1969, it became regulated, boring and corporate. By 1970, all artistry and creativity were gone.

There are some rare exceptions, such as that series with the Rangers (Batting Cowboy), Mariners (Mermaid), Brewers (Barrel Guy) and Padres (Friar Head). I suppose that group would be the “last hurrah” for originality.

Really sad... I wonder what became of the artists, and hope they landed on their feet (AdFlag guy not withstanding).

Even “Barrel Guy” was kind of a team logo, no?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Even “Barrel Guy” was kind of a team logo, no?

I meant this series from the 70s....

[thetahat]

Saw this generic Dodgers pennant on eBay. Not too uncommon. This is the product of a company who has made many pennants, but has yet to be identified. What strikes me about this is the spine and tassels. Not felt and not cloth. Almost feels like canvas. Where have we seen this before? The company that made the 1958 LA/SF opening day pennant, the 1954-58 WS pennants (see ‘55 below), and the 1956, 1958 NFLC pennants. The pennants themselves are cloth. Furthermore, we have this series below that Baseball Rob posted awhile ago, observe the Phillies pennant. These all have the same type of spine. That being said, my guess is that this pic is from 1964-65 simply because of the Milwaukee Braves and Redlegs pennants hanging. 1968 seems a tick too modern. I know they changed the 3 to an 8 on the WS pennant. Do you have more background on this pic, Rob?

Anyway, this is a company with a distinct style. My guess is that it is from/near NYC. Ideas?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Saw this generic Dodgers pennant on eBay. Not too uncommon. This is the product of a company who has made many pennants, but has yet to be identified. What strikes me about this is the spine and tassels. Not felt and not cloth. Almost feels like canvas. Where have we seen this before? The company that made the 1958 LA/SF opening day pennant, the 1954-58 WS pennants (see ‘55 below), and the 1956, 1958 NFLC pennants. The pennants themselves are cloth. Furthermore, we have this series below that Baseball Rob posted awhile ago, observe the Phillies pennant. These all have the same type of spine. That being said, my guess is that this pic is from 1964-65 simply because of the Milwaukee Braves and Redlegs pennants hanging. 1968 seems a tick too modern. I know they changed the 3 to an 8 on the WS pennant. Do you have more background on this pic, Rob?

Anyway, this is a company with a distinct style. My guess is that it is from/near NYC. Ideas?

The 1958 Opening Day pennants I have seen all have a "normal" spine...

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Saw this generic Dodgers pennant on eBay. Not too uncommon. This is the product of a company who has made many pennants, but has yet to be identified. What strikes me about this is the spine and tassels. Not felt and not cloth. Almost feels like canvas. Where have we seen this before? The company that made the 1958 LA/SF opening day pennant, the 1954-58 WS pennants (see ‘55 below), and the 1956, 1958 NFLC pennants. The pennants themselves are cloth. Furthermore, we have this series below that Baseball Rob posted awhile ago, observe the Phillies pennant. These all have the same type of spine. That being said, my guess is that this pic is from 1964-65 simply because of the Milwaukee Braves and Redlegs pennants hanging. 1968 seems a tick too modern. I know they changed the 3 to an 8 on the WS pennant. Do you have more background on this pic, Rob?

Anyway, this is a company with a distinct style. My guess is that it is from/near NYC. Ideas?

Yup. Trench

Trench definitely made the "BKLYN." pennant you first showed. Rick posted a photo from the Brooklyn Eagle of some kids waving it that dates it to ca. 1949. I believe it measures 26" in length; which, by the late 1940s, was Trench's preferred size. There's also a Brooklyn (football) Dodgers pennant featuring the same letter script, with a punter graphic known to be used by Trench during that same era.

The '55 Dodgers v. Yankees WS pennant is, I believe, also by Trench.

So you weren't far off on your New York guess, Greg; except these came from Buffalo rather than NYC.

I can't say I've ever noted any anomalies in the spines on either of these two pennants.

I'm afraid the '58 Dodgers v. Giants "1st Game" pennant's manufacturer remains unknown. I don't believe it's by Trench: it has no tassels. The speculation among Rob and I was that this was made by a local, bay area novelty maker that made a few other Giant-only pennants featuring the same San Francisco artwork.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Furthermore, we have this series below that Baseball Rob posted awhile ago, observe the Phillies pennant. These all have the same type of spine. That being said, my guess is that this pic is from 1964-65 simply because of the Milwaukee Braves and Redlegs pennants hanging. 1968 seems a tick too modern. I know they changed the 3 to an 8 on the WS pennant. Do you have more background on this pic, Rob?

Here's the background my buddy gave me. He grew up in Fresno.

'These are photos from a baseball banquet in Fresno circa 1964-65 I believe. They came from Bill Thompson’s estate. Bill broadcast the SFG games between 1965-73 w/ Russ (Hodges) & Lon (Simmons), but before and after was affiliated with the Fresno Giants; before as an announcer and after as general manager. My guess is that, based on the people and background, it was either part of what was called “The Hot Stove League Dinner”, an annual offseason baseball banquet that really took off in the 1970’s (had Aaron, Garagiola and McCovey as guests of honor at it’s zenith), or it could have also been a farewell dinner for Bill between 1964-65 when he left his post as KFCN-TV Sports Director to work for the SF Giants; or even a combination. It’s just a guess, and a best guess at that.'

Not sure that clears anything up. Still can't explain why the Dodgers' 3 was changed to an 8.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Most teams had fresh logos and artistry through 1968 or so. Then in 1969, it became regulated, boring and corporate. By 1970, all artistry and creativity were gone.

There are some rare exceptions, such as that series with the Rangers (Batting Cowboy), Mariners (Mermaid), Brewers (Barrel Guy) and Padres (Friar Head). I suppose that group would be the “last hurrah” for originality.

Really sad... I wonder what became of the artists, and hope they landed on their feet (AdFlag guy not withstanding).

Oh, I thought you meant this "barrel guy." If I'm not mistaken they are using this logo these days. If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to see the Rangers, Padres, and Mariners pennants you're thinking of.

Greg, I do have backstory on that picture. Actually, my buddy does. I'll get with him and get back to you.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Would it be safe to say that artwork on pennants pretty much disappeared in the mid-60s? By "artwork," I mean stadiums, players, etc. and not logos or stand alone helmets.

Here's an evolution of Giants pennants. !962 NL Champs with the cartoon font; 1960's pennant with same font, showing an un-enclosed Candlestick; early 70's pennant showing Candlestick enclosed; stiff, synthetic pennant with leftover graphics and, finally, a 1970's logo only pennant.

I really can't think of any Giants pennants past the mid-60's with any new graphics. They are all just logos and print. Is it the same with other teams?

Isn’t there a 1970s Giants with a barrel chested Giant standing in Candlestick?

[thetahat]

And to answer the question, it seemed to go out with the MLB trademarks. Although there are pennants which look like the 1969s but have no trademark, suggesting maybe 1966-68.

I still love the cloth ASCOs from 1969 but you all know that already ...

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Isn’t there a 1970s Giants with a barrel chested Giant standing in Candlestick?

This guy? Yeah, I guess you could consider this "artwork"....or not.

[Domer05]

The Dodgers offered up this stadium pennant, made by Trench, in the latter half of the 1960s; and it remained available for purchase through the team's souvenir catalogue into the early 1980s.

Although the coloring changed from four to two colors sometime in the 1970s, the design remain otherwise unchanged throughout its 15 year run. Surprisingly, it never featured an MLB mark like others by Trench or ASCO/WinCraft made during that era.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

The Dodgers offered up this stadium pennant, made by Trench, in the latter half of the 1960s; and it remained available for purchase through the team's souvenir catalogue into the early 1980s.

Although the coloring changed from four to two colors sometime in the 1970s, the design remain otherwise unchanged throughout its 15 year run. Surprisingly, it never featured an MLB mark like others by Trench or ASCO/WinCraft made during that era.

But did the material change over those 15-20 years?

FWIW - I just entered my 250th Giants pennant into the three pennant spreadsheets I maintain. Many are modern crap, but I've got 'em.

[ooo-ribay]

I pick these up when I can get them cheap. I'd say I've paid an average of $20 apiece. Made by "Winning Streak" for the last 25 years or so. No graphics but very well made of thick wool felt. The big ones are 40-42" long; the smaller ones are 32." They get 2nd tier storage .Does anyone else pick these up? Probably not.