Proper action for a stolen package from a Buy/Sell/Trade transaction

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Seven

+1 to this. I noticed this in the couple of card groups that I belong to on FB. I'd imagine Venmo might be a better alternative for those who are trying to skirt the 3% fee but still want to use an app/service.

Ultimately at the end of the day, Cash is king. I've put a hold on purchasing cards at the moment, just with all of the money being dedicated towards holiday purchases, however, I'd much rather make deals with people in person than through a service such as paypal. Not often the most convenient, and not always possible, but something that definitely ensures the card gets to the buyer and the money to the seller.

For those who use Venmo, they offer zero buyer protection.

[notfast]

I’m surprised so many people are talking about USPS insurance. I thought it was common knowledge they don’t pay out on sports cards and in the limited cases they do, it’s a huge ordeal.

Third party or “self insure” — save yourself money over the long run.

[Directly]

Originally Posted by notfast

I’m surprised so many people are talking about USPS insurance. I thought it was common knowledge they don’t pay out on sports cards and in the limited cases they do, it’s a huge ordeal.

Third party or “self insure” — save yourself money over the long run.

So if that's the case why do they sell insurance at all?

[Fred]

Originally Posted by notfast

I’m surprised so many people are talking about USPS insurance. I thought it was common knowledge they don’t pay out on sports cards and in the limited cases they do, it’s a huge ordeal.

Third party or “self insure” — save yourself money over the long run.

I'm confused - why would USPS offer insurance if they're not going to cover the losses if they lose the package?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm confused - why would USPS offer insurance if they're not going to cover the losses if they lose the package?

Insurance is a HUGE money maker, it wouldn't be a product if they lost money by paying out claims.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Directly

So if that's the case why do they sell insurance at all?

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm confused - why would USPS offer insurance if they're not going to cover the losses if they lose the package?

It’s just not as cut and dry as you’d want or expect especially when dealing with something extremely valuable.

Fed Ex will let you insure a package for basically whatever amount you want but they only cover $1k in collectibles.

Buying third party insurance and following their requirements for shipping will save you significant amounts of money as well as give you a better piece of mind than trying to get a claim through USPS

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm confused - why would USPS offer insurance if they're not going to cover the losses if they lose the package?

They will offer you insurance, but in a claim you MUST prove the value of the items. That is objective value , not a , " This is a 1/1 and the last like one that sold was a 1/100 and sold for $1 so this one must be worth $15" sort of thing. And just because you value a $7k package and they only allowed you $5k in insurance(online max) they only reimbursed you $4600 because that's all you could prove was in the package. Ask me how I know, SMH.

To the original thread, Im in the sellers camp, I think. To me being on both ends at one point or another makes this very difficult. In the end a buyer should always pay the measly 3% . I mean $7.50 would have solved this whole situation.

[Fred]

I had a package sent to me UPS RED (next day air) I needed that package to take on an international trip the next day.

The package was tracked, I waited for it and when I checked the status it said "delivered". Totally blew my mind. Someone had to sign for it. It was shipped to my home address and I was home ALL day waiting for that package.

After I saw the "delivered" status I called UPS and asked them where it was delivered and they indicated my home address. Obviously it was delivered elsewhere and they (UPS) had NO CLUE where it was.

I was so pissed off that I FEDEX'd an overnight letter to the UPS corporate office in Atlanta letting them know how incompetent they were. I was hoping a big Fedex truck pulled up and delivered it. After returning from my trip I received several calls from the UPS corporate office and regional offices.

This was shipped with the highest priority, signature required by a main delivery service and they totally screwed it up.

The point being - even though a delivery service package indicates "delivered", it doesn't mean it was to the correct address.

Not too long ago I was sent a package from an auction house (signature required) and the postal delivery person was trying to drop it off and run without my signature. I couldn't believe it. I happened to hear the postal carrier at my door. When I went to the door I saw the condition of the package. I about crapped my pants because there a good chance the contents could have been damaged. There was nothing wrong with the packaging by the auction house. What was a miracle is that the content was not damaged.

The point being - the idiot postal carrier that tried to drop a damaged package and run. What if I wasn't home or what if someone decided to steal the package from my front porch? It would have been shown as delivered, albeit no signature.

I asked the postal carrier why they didn't ring the door bell and wait for me to sign. They said covid protocols meant no signature had to be taken.

I was pissed and went to the post office the next day and spoke with a carrier supervisor and told them that type of service is why people are doubting the USPS. I used to try and support the USPS, but no more, not after that. The next day, I had all of my financial statements transferred to electronic delivery.

I've had several successful BST transactions (as a buyer) using USPS since then and no issues.

It might be easy to see which side of the fence I stand on in this case. I've always asked for the total price (including S/H) with the package "delivered" to my address. No ambiguity there.

I trust the people on the BST (try to make sure the seller isn't someone new on the board) and believe that we all have the bet of intentions and nobody's trying to screw anybody. Sometimes bad luck just seems to hit when it's a collectible. One more thing - communication is a good thing - even though there may be a debate about responsibility - always communicate.




https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1609275658

[drcy]

I had an important overnight UPSP delivery that took 13 days.

It is a legitimate issue that a seller and pro-sellers have that the seller does everything right shipping-wise, but the shipping is entirely in someone else's hands. This is why it isn't a clear cut matter of team-buyer versus team-seller. My view is it's the buyer's responsibility to have the package delivered (unless otherwise stipulated in the sales description). However, this USPS issue is why those in the minority here arguing that it's not automatically all on the seller have legitimate points. One may disagree with their perspective, but they aren't objectively wrong.

It's difficult to say something is black-and-white either a or c, when there's a b in the equation as well. One may disagree, but a legitimate argument can be that the seller is not responsible for "act of God."

In ethical (and moral) questions, there are no objective answers. It usually involves community shared subjective feelings.

It's also true that, as most people on Net54 are collectors/buyers, there tends to be a rote pro-buyer bias, and buyers often want things to all be in their forever. I remember a Net54 insisting an old auction house LOA guarantee should be forever and for the appreciated (not original sell) value, even though the document clearly said three years and he wasn't the original buyer. I said that life would be easy and we'd all be rich if we could rewrite contracts any way we wanted twenty years later and when we weren't even a party in the contract.

Likely some will say "Well, the buyer should self-insure" yet complain to high heaven when a seller adds a 25 cent self-insurance charge on a sale or even charges actual shipping and handling cost. Many or even most sellers lose money on shipping charge, so it's a curious argument that they should somehow derive self-insurance money out of that loss.

Maybe a new hobby norm is buyers should expect a small additional fee to all sales, as USPS insurance is no good and buyers expect sellers to take all the risk/responsibility. If buyers don't agree to that then maybe it shouldn't after all be on the seller when USPS fucks up.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Fred

The point being - even though a delivery service package indicates "delivered", it doesn't mean it was to the correct address.

Very true. Several different parties thought I was losing my mind, but last year the USPS marked a package "delivered" to my office, and when I went to the mailroom less than 10 minutes later, the employees there (who had safely tendered to me literally hundreds of packages in the previous 3 years....) had no clue what I was talking about. Someone there could have put on an disappearing act, sure - but if they did it would have been the first one, and I considered them totally trustworthy.

Long story short, eBay paid for my "delivered" card that was not, and did not ding the seller. But they made me fill out a police report to allege the package had been stolen since the USPS officially deemed it delivered. Not sure this was fair either, but eBay just wanted a police report number to give to their insurance company. After that, they were more than happy to pay me out under their "Buyer's Guarantee."

A rare occurrence, at least for me - but prices and fees be damned, this is why I still lean heavily on the eBay marketplace. I'm covered by both eBay and PayPal if the seller doesn't want to cooperate. And in the increasingly likely scenario that the United States Postal Service totally F's up...I'm covered by eBay there regardless as well.

[philo98]

Originally Posted by Fred

I had a package sent to me UPS RED (next day air) I needed that package to take on an international trip the next day.

The package was tracked, I waited for it and when I checked the status it said "delivered". Totally blew my mind. Someone had to sign for it. It was shipped to my home address and I was home ALL day waiting for that package.

After I saw the "delivered" status I called UPS and asked them where it was delivered and they indicated my home address. Obviously it was delivered elsewhere and they (UPS) had NO CLUE where it was.

I was so pissed off that I FEDEX'd an overnight letter to the UPS corporate office in Atlanta letting them know how incompetent they were. I was hoping a big Fedex truck pulled up and delivered it. After returning from my trip I received several calls from the UPS corporate office and regional offices.

This was shipped with the highest priority, signature required by a main delivery service and they totally screwed it up.

The point being - even though a delivery service package indicates "delivered", it doesn't mean it was to the correct address.

I had this happen with Fedex last month. They said it was delivered at the house but never was, it was even signed for. I had to go to 5 different Fedex places to get an answer and finally track down the package. The security guard at the last location told me this is occuring often now. They have too many new drivers due to the increase in online ordering, plus being designated a supplier of vaccines. I would imagine these instances will continue. For that, I took out my own 3rd party insurance to cover these kind of things over the next year or so.

[bobbyw8469]

For that, I took out my own 3rd party insurance to cover these kind of things over the next year or so.

Can you say who you used and give a rough idea what it costs?

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by philo98

I had this happen with Fedex last month. They said it was delivered at the house but never was, it was even signed for. I had to go to 5 different Fedex places to get an answer and finally track down the package. The security guard at the last location told me this is occuring often now. They have too many new drivers due to the increase in online ordering, plus being designated a supplier of vaccines. I would imagine these instances will continue. For that, I took out my own 3rd party insurance to cover these kind of things over the next year or so.

As a former Postmaster who tracked down many packages, I can tell you that if you think that a 'delivered" package was not delivered to your address, your Postmaster can tell you, within 2-3 minutes, where the package was actually delivered. There were many times when I looked at the GPS tracking, and I told my customer to look on their deck, or in the garage, or on their back porch, because the GPS shows, within a few inches, where the package and the carrier was when the "delivered" scan was made. Of course, there were many other times when I discovered that the package was delivered to 406 Oak St. rather than 406 Walnut St., or that the package was delivered to a neighbor.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Jim65

For those who use Venmo, they offer zero buyer protection.

Very true, I wouldn't have an issue using it with some of the long withstanding members on here though.