Proper action for a stolen package from a Buy/Sell/Trade transaction

[cammb]

When I sell a card and state shipped it means free shipping, nothing else. There isn’t a person on this board who can guarantee that the card will be delivered. If the buyer wants insurance or priority shipping, he should state it. I am on the side of the seller on this one.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by cammb

When I sell a card and state shipped it means free shipping, nothing else. There isn’t a person on this board who can guarantee that the card will be delivered. If the buyer wants insurance or priority shipping, he should state it. I am on the side of the seller on this one.

BS, there are many of us on this forum that guarantee the card(s) they sell will be delivered or a refund will be given.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

BS, there are many of us on this forum that guarantee the card(s) they sell will be delivered or a refund will be given.

+1
or maybe even +2

[todeen]

Originally Posted by bnorth

BS, there are many of us on this forum that guarantee the card(s) they sell will be delivered or a refund will be given.

Concur. Standard practice of Amazon has forced every other e-business to guarantee delivery. Standard practice of internet sales should be expected on this site of collectors as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Kidnapped18]

This is like a law school Contracts I exam from First Year!

Larry (Buyer) is due a full refund of $225 + shipping from Brian (Seller).
Buyer never received card that he fully paid for and he should not bear any loss. Absent any language to the contrary, it is the Seller's responsibility to ensure mailing AND delivery of the card and if card is mailed but not delivered then Seller (Responsible Party) needs to refund the purchase amount.

As stated in an earlier post, 'parties can write their own contract.' You can always request/negotiate insurance be purchased on a card and incorporate that into the final price.

I don't understand why there is even a discussion of G/S v F/F via PayPal...to me both are irrelevant in this instance.

All that said Buyer does need to realize Seller did just have major surgery and have just a little more patience regardless of how many posts Seller has made in recent weeks.

It is still the Christmas season right?

Tony

[cammb]

Originally Posted by bnorth

BS, there are many of us on this forum that guarantee the card(s) they sell will be delivered or a refund will be given.

When you sell a card, do you state that you guarantee delivery? No one states that. It is implied. A good seller will always refund but that’s not to say he has to.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cammb

When you sell a card, do you state that you guarantee delivery? No one states that. It is implied. A good seller will always refund but that’s not to say he has to.

Many times I will say "delivered" in my for sale posts. Other times I will say shipping but insurance is on the buyer if wanted. And other times I might say all shipping and insurance at the buyers expense (or words to that effect). And some other times I don't say anything and then I expect safe delivery is on me.

It is all about communication. But there won't be more rules on our forum for this. I don' feel the need to change now and don't like too many rules. If instituted they have to be enforced. The name/anonymity rule keeps me busy enough.

and to answer James' question right above. while I agree generally, with Brian's medical issues and postage the way it is, I think utmost patience should be given. In the end it is on the seller though if nothing was discussed.

Brian- I wish you a speedy recovery, btw


.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Leon

and to answer James' question right above. while I agree generally, with Brian's medical issues and postage the way it is, I think utmost patience should be given.

Leon, I don't necessarily disagree but at what point of no package and no response from seller is beyond being patient? I'd say a month is past that point.

The seller posted here on quite a few occasions in that time so a simple PM "I'm sorry, I'm having health issues" isn't too much to ask. Otherwise, how does the buyer know sellers situation? I assume the OP isn't heartless.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Leon, I don't necessarily disagree but at what point of no package and no response from seller is beyond being patient? I'd say a month is past that point.

The seller posted here on quite a few occasions in that time so a simple PM "I'm sorry, I'm having health issues" isn't too much to ask. Otherwise, how does the buyer know sellers situation? I assume the OP isn't heartless.

I don't disagree he should have communicated. IF he is posting other stuff he can sure send a PM or email to the buyer. And 1 month is pretty long but right now I would almost give it about 6 weeks. But that is just me. A month is generally more than enough time without the holidays and the USPS issues.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Meanwhile, everything I order from Amazon arrives on time, whether it goes through the USPS or not.

[mckinneyj]

If I get my $$ to a seller then I expect the seller to get their card to me. Deal is done when both actions have occurred. Absent that someone needs to be made whole.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by mckinneyj

If I get my $$ to a seller then I expect the seller to get their card to me. Deal is done when both actions have occurred. Absent that someone needs to be made whole.

It is for you to get your money to the seller. Chances are you do it electronically.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by cammb

When you sell a card, do you state that you guarantee delivery? No one states that. It is implied. A good seller will always refund but that’s not to say he has to.

I don't agree, but Cammb's points are legitimate.

People should be clear in their sales description what they mean. I don't think it's a bad argument to say "If the USPS loses it...," but, from this thread, that's obviously not what many buyers expect. Thus, be clear in the sales description.

Further, insurance can be the option of the buyer, and if the buyer chooses not to pay for postal insurance, then that buys into Cammb's argument that the buyer is choosing to take that chance on the item possibly being lost or damaged in the mail. There, it could be fairly argued that is on the buyer.

Seller in description: "I'm not responsible for the USPS's errors. You are welcome to pay for insurance, but if you choose not to have the item insured that is your choice, I am not responsible for loss or damage caused by USPS." That's a fair enough thing to say.

Obviously, Paypal, credit card company and Facebook are final arbiters of where the money goes or stays, making many arguments moot.

Also, you're choosing to take the risk when you pay with F/F. The buyer can't claim entire innocence when agreeing to do that, as he is both agreeing to give up normal protections and it involves some dishonesty.

[jchcollins]

To me, the simplest lesson here that bears repeating and is applicable in virtually any context - is that if you are buying something like a baseball card of moderate or more value from someone outside of a forum with another stated guarantee (i.e. eBay...) then DO NOT send funds FF via PayPal. They will not cover you, because the implication is that you were giving someone money, not paying for a good or service. Just because a seller has a good reputation on a forum, or nobody else has ever had an apparent problem with them in the past does not mean your particular transaction will go off without a hitch. (Anymore, likely...) the USPS is having horrible issues and sometimes takes longer to deliver packages these days than the time in which they might have been reasonably considered flat out lost in just the recent past. The seller might have major health issues, and not be able to communicate as expected.

All could have been avoided with PayPal G&S. Honestly even though it is increasingly more expensive, this is why I sometimes stick to buying things through eBay, because their guarantee is that you GET the item, without having to wade through a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo about who bears responsibility in the case that you DON'T get the item. Thusly they paid for a $150-ish card I bought about a year ago that was either lost or stolen, even though it had been marked delivered by the USPS. PayPal should have covered me as well had that transaction not been through eBay, however. I guess I'm a double glutton for fee punishment, but I don't lose $$ on cards.

Caveat Emptor. Which to me means also that the buyer should protect their purchases in some way in every situation...

[mckinneyj]

> if the buyer chooses not to pay for postal insurance

Postal insurance is something that may only be purchased by the sender(seller), and any claim on that insurance need be made by whomever is in possession of the original mailing receipt, and, if awarded, is collected by the that person. The claimant may have to produce proof of value. IMO, not much protection for the receiver(buyer)...

https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm

fwiw

[Jcfowler6]

Originally Posted by mckinneyj

> if the buyer chooses not to pay for postal insurance

Postal insurance is something that may only be purchased by the sender(seller), and any claim on that insurance need be made by whomever is in possession of the original mailing receipt, and, if awarded, is collected by the that person. The claimant may have to produce proof of value. IMO, not much protection for the receiver(buyer)...

https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm

fwiw

Goods and services thru PayPal is the buyers protection.


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[Shoeless Moe]

Has the seller contacted the buyer and have you two worked anything out yet?

It's been 3 days since this thread was opened. I hope by now the seller has reached out..............finally.

[Fred]

Just curious, if the seller requests F/F and S/S is selected (and the 3% fee is paid by the buyer), does that mean paypal is going to side on the buyers behalf if the package is NOT RECEIVED? What if the buyer produces a legitimate tracking number to paypal? Does that have weight in the decision to side with the buyer by paypal?

Bottom line, is paying paypal S/S like putting the seller on notice that they might want to consider insuring the package?

How many people on the BST pay the 3% for S/S even though the seller is asking for F/F?

Can the seller cancel the sale if F/F was requested by the buyer paid with the S/S option (and 3% paid for by the buyer)?

Just trying to get ahead of the curve here.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by bnorth

BS, there are many of us on this forum that guarantee the card(s) they sell will be delivered or a refund will be given.

'me!'

*PRIORITY MAIL FULLY INSURED AND/OR YOUR MONEY BACK ~

*EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CARD!

i've had maybe 2 bad transactions in the 21 years i've been here...
one included a $15 lost check in the Mail... from when i was working in Iraq.

The other? i'm sure someone might inform me of the tragedy...
& "i'd Still Make it Right Today!"

Now... When Brian(Hey there Brian, my prayers are with You Sir!) has Paid Back ToppsAholic... i'm Sorry, what was this guys name AGaiN!?!?

Anyways... when the Card does Show up, Will He Return Brian's Money & Keep the Card? Return the Card(because it has this Stinky Stuff on it!) & Keep the Money? Or!?!?

"Side Bar Your Honor"... *Where is Your Compassion Dude ~ ?

Send me Your Paypal Address and i'll pay You back myself ~ "Truly!"

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cammb

When I sell a card and state shipped it means free shipping, nothing else. There isn’t a person on this board who can guarantee that the card will be delivered. If the buyer wants insurance or priority shipping, he should state it. I am on the side of the seller on this one.

You need to communicate that because it is not the norm on this forum. I would be pissed if you said shipped and didn't guarantee delivery.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cammb

When I sell a card and state shipped it means free shipping, nothing else. There isn’t a person on this board who can guarantee that the card will be delivered. If the buyer wants insurance or priority shipping, he should state it. I am on the side of the seller on this one.

Of course you can't guarantee it. But you can and should, and apparently according to the rules do, bear the risk of loss.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by cammb

When I sell a card and state shipped it means free shipping, nothing else. There isn’t a person on this board who can guarantee that the card will be delivered. If the buyer wants insurance or priority shipping, he should state it. I am on the side of the seller on this one.

Since you take the sellers side, do you think its ok for him to ignore PMs about lost package when he has the buyers $225 in his pocket?