2021 HOF Ballot

[Jason19th]

Originally Posted by Usc1

I wonder if in the future any of the sign stealing astros are left out as well?

Sign stealing is worse than PEDs!

No high school kid ever died or was seriously hurt from By sign stealing

[Usc1]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

No high school kid ever died or was seriously hurt from By sign stealing

I was speaking in terms of the game. Ask any baseball player and they will state that sign stealing is one of the worst ways to cheat in baseball. It takes all the guess work out of hitting.

I am not speaking of sign stealing by casual observation as well. It is the use of binoculars and electronic devices.

[G1911]

None of the new to ballot players even merit much consideration, I think. I hope Torri Hunter gets an honorary single vote though, I liked him.

Clemens, Bonds, Sheffield, Ramirez, Sosa are primarily an ethics based argument instead of a fact-oriented one and are there own category. Petite is a toss up if you ignore the steroid charges.


I would vote for Schilling, he’s not in for political and personality reasons. Very similar to Glavine and Mussina, clearest HOFer on the ballot I think.


Vizquel I would not vote for. 2,968 games, 45.6 WAR. His traditional stats are not very good either, his glove doesn’t overcome his 82 OPS+. He was maybe the fourth or fifth best Shortstop in the league during his prime. Personal favorite, fond memories of his nightly Sports Center highlight reels, but not a HOFer.


Rolen I would vote for. How many 3B in baseball history are better? Unless we want to cut the Hall in half, I think he deserves it when one digs deeper.


Wagner - No, 903 IP is not enough impact on the game for almost anyone. I would only vote for maybe Wilhelm and Rivera among RP’s though, Wagner is better than a a good chunk of the relievers in so his election would not be outrageous.


Helton - would probably vote for, even with the Colorado affect. If I had to pick a 1B from this era not in I would select McGriff first, but he’s not an option.


Jeff Kent - He ranks pretty high among 2B all time I think, better than a significant number in even with his late start. Modern stats punish his defense excessively, I think, holding his WAR down. One of the best 2B bats ever, all time Home Run leader by a wide margin. Late start to career, average D, and a jackass though. I don’t think he gets in, but I’d vote for him over Omar.


Andruw Jones - I get the argument for him, but I’d vote no. His value is all peak, and that peak wasn’t long enough to justify the Hall. Another personal favorite though.


Bobby Abreu - A better case than half the ballot, strikes me very much as an underrated Minoso type player, one who was really good at a ton of things but not great enough in any one thing to get credit for his total value. His case is much stronger than people realize before they delve into the numbers. Worthy of serious consideration.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by G1911

Andruw Jones - I get the argument for him, but I’d vote no. His value is all peak, and that peak wasn’t long enough to justify the Hall. Another personal favorite though.

That first playoff series when Andruw Jones was a rookie - WOW. I was 9 or 10 living in Montana. Barely knew anything about him. He was like watching an acrobat. It was phenomenal to see him. Easily comparable to Griffey in his prime. But I agree his peak wasn't long enough to merit consideration.

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[AGuinness]

I'm not the first person to put this opinion out there, but with Bud Selig being enshrined in the Hall of Fame, I think anybody who played in that era (before actual testing) should also be enshrined despite the PED connections. It's pretty grand hypocrisy for the Hall to honor a man who oversaw that era, benefiting from the PEDs and turning his eye to their usage, while keeping the players out.
That said, anybody who failed a test, once testing was implemented, should not get that benefit of the doubt. Manny, Rafael, Sosa, etc.
Clemens and Bonds never failed a test and even if you slashed their stats in half they'd still both be Hall of Famers.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I'm not the first person to put this opinion out there, but with Bud Selig being enshrined in the Hall of Fame, I think anybody who played in that era (before actual testing) should also be enshrined despite the PED connections. It's pretty grand hypocrisy for the Hall to honor a man who oversaw that era, benefiting from the PEDs and turning his eye to their usage, while keeping the players out.
That said, anybody who failed a test, once testing was implemented, should not get that benefit of the doubt. Manny, Rafael, Sosa, etc.
Clemens and Bonds never failed a test and even if you slashed their stats in half they'd still both be Hall of Famers.

This. Selig should not only never have been voted into the Hall, he should have been fired. He had the power to stop the steroid usage before it became a problem and he chose to look the other way. The story of his tenure - never address a problem until it goes public. If he is in the Hall, then the bar has been set and Bonds and Clemens and the others should be right in there with him. Maybe in their own room.

[Mike D.]

Agree on Selig. It’s his fault that we can’t have a decent HOF debate without it quickly degrading into a conversation on steroids....who did what when, who we suspect with no evidence, etc.

Agreeing on who is a hall of fame player is difficult enough without this - but the debate is a lot more fun!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by todeen

That first playoff series when Andruw Jones was a rookie - WOW. I was 9 or 10 living in Montana. Barely knew anything about him. He was like watching an acrobat. It was phenomenal to see him. Easily comparable to Griffey in his prime. But I agree his peak wasn't long enough to merit consideration.

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He was one of my favorites as a kid, for those acrobatic catches and because Braves games were on TV all the time then. I was raised in the Church of Willie Mays and my fathers opinion that Jones was the best defensive CF he'd seen since pretty much anointed Andruw for me. As I recall the late 90's/early 00's, Vizquel and Jones were half the nightly "Web Gems" segment.

Since we need a card, I picked this one up for $1 a few weeks ago. Cards like a Jones relic made 15 year old me excited, it's very nice I can pick up the old relics of stars from the sets I couldn't afford hobby boxes of for almost nothing these days.

[Mike D.]

Schilling will likely be the lone BBWAA electee this year, as others have said.

Of note that he really didn't lose favor for being right wing necessarily, it was tweeting/re-tweeting something about hanging journalists. When you're dealing with an electorate of journalists, it's not a way to gain popularity.

I believe Schilling deleted his Twitter account a while back, which in an election year was probably a good idea and the quiet should put him over the 75% mark.

I'm not a big Vizquel fan, and the domestic abuse charges will obviously hurt him. Time will tell if he gets in in the future.

The new guys will struggle to get a vote, never mind get the 5% to stay on the ballot....although Tim Hudson is closer to a hall of famer than most will think at first blush. Seriously, look at the # of HOF (or HOF-likely) pitchers born after 1970...it's alarming. The voters aren't adjusting to what a HOF pitcher looks like in the "modern game". Guys like Kevin Brown, Johan Santana, and maybe Tim Hudson are the best of the era.

Interesting we've made it through the "ballot glut" and the upcoming classes are a bit thinner. I'm not sure that Beltran gets hurt by the "cheating scandal"...not with both banned managers already back in the game.

And Ortiz is a lock. His situation is very different than that with anyone who tested positive. Heck, even the commissioned said so...

[clydepepper]

Of those who are actually on this ballot:

I want to get in:

Curt Schilling & Billy Wagner

Who I think will get in:

Curt Schilling

Who I don't want in but this may be their window of opportunity:

bonds and clemens



Of those who are not on the ballot, but should be in:

Gil Hodges
Minnie Minoso
Luis Tiant
Tony Oliva

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by G1911

Andruw Jones - I get the argument for him, but I’d vote no. His value is all peak, and that peak wasn’t long enough to justify the Hall.

You will have a very hard time finding any Dodger fans who would be in favor of Andruw Jones getting within 20 miles of Cooperstown without having to buy a ticket.

We gave him $36.2 mil, and he gave us 33 hits. In the 35 games I attended before we RELEASED HIM half way thru his deal I was lucky enough to see 4 of them.


And for those of you who suffered thru his atrocious at bats in 2008, let me remind you of the song he walked up the plate to :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU


Bobby Bonilla will put more work into his check from the Mets next year...

[T206BrownHindu]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

You will have a very hard time finding any Dodger fans who would be in favor of Andruw Jones getting within 20 miles of Cooperstown without having to buy a ticket.

We gave him $36.2 mil, and he gave us 33 hits. In the 35 games I attended before we RELEASED HIM half way thru his deal I was lucky enough to see 4 of them.


And for those of you who suffered thru his atrocious at bats in 2008, let me remind you of the song he walked up the plate to :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU


Bobby Bonilla will put more work into his check from the Mets next year...

I agree. I remember the lazy Andruw Jones as much as the young phenom.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by T206BrownHindu

I agree. I remember the lazy Andruw Jones as much as the young phenom.

The biggest paycheck he ever got (by nearly 50% according to Baseball Reference) was the one the Dodgers gave him to play for Rangers.