Buying raw cards online

[Exhibitman]

You have to discover which dealers are honest and fair graders. Simple as that. There are some dealers whose word I trust, like Scottsdate Baseball Cards [scottsdalecards.com] or Burbank Sports Cards [burbankcards.com] to grade accurately, present representative scans, and make good any errors that do take place. 95% of what I buy now is raw and my 'go-back' rate is minuscule when I stick to reputable sellers.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

You have to discover which dealers are honest and fair graders. Simple as that. There are some dealers whose word I trust, like Scottsdate Baseball Cards [scottsdalecards.com] or Burbank Sports Cards [burbankcards.com] to grade accurately, present representative scans, and make good any errors that do take place. 95% of what I buy now is raw and my 'go-back' rate is minuscule when I stick to reputable sellers.

I guess my thing is that even when I see a representative scan, I couldn't consistently/reliably distinguish with any certainty between a PSA 6-8, for example. And neither could someone at PSA, if they were being honest.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ASF123

I guess my thing is that even when I see a representative scan, I couldn't consistently/reliably distinguish with any certainty between a PSA 6-8, for example. And neither could someone at PSA, if they were being honest.

Well sure, but that goes with the much cheaper costs with raw cards. You just have to decide what factors are most important to you with a given issue. Like with 1952 Topps I favor centering over technical condition. I know I will never assemble a group in nice shape, so clean, centered cards with rounded corners or a crease are fine with me.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Well sure, but that goes with the much cheaper costs with raw cards.

I wish they were much cheaper. I'm seeing the really nice-looking raw cards, the vast majority of which are from Greg Morris or other big dealers, getting bid up to around PSA 6-7 prices regularly. Where are you finding these much cheaper costs?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ASF123

I wish they were much cheaper. I'm seeing the really nice-looking raw cards, the vast majority of which are from Greg Morris or other big dealers, getting bid up to around PSA 6-7 prices regularly. Where are you finding these much cheaper costs?

I'm not. I don't collect higher end cards anymore. I am replacing mine with lower grade cards (mostly raw) and pocketing the difference. I also do not participate in auctions for those cards except on a lowball bidding basis. I look for BINs. Postwar mainstream cards are not rare, so there is no point in chasing after a specific card. I wait until I see something I like in my price range. No FOMO for me.

As for being able to spot a PSA 6-7-8, if you want a PSA 8, then buy one at the commensurate PSA grade price.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I'm not. I don't collect higher end cards anymore. I am replacing mine with lower grade cards (mostly raw) and pocketing the difference. I also do not participate in auctions for those cards except on a lowball bidding basis. I look for BINs. Postwar mainstream cards are not rare, so there is no point in chasing after a specific card. I wait until I see something I like in my price range. No FOMO for me.

As for being able to spot a PSA 6-7-8, if you want a PSA 8, then buy one at the commensurate PSA grade price.

I might - if it were possible to reliably tell what would be a PSA 8 from an online listing. But I don't think it is, and we're right back where we started . So, like you, I've decided to basically only get those types of cards on the occasions that I can snag them for around PSA 4 prices. Sounds like we're on the same page.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

You have to discover which dealers are honest and fair graders. Simple as that. There are some dealers whose word I trust, like Scottsdate Baseball Cards [scottsdalecards.com] or Burbank Sports Cards [burbankcards.com] to grade accurately, present representative scans, and make good any errors that do take place. 95% of what I buy now is raw and my 'go-back' rate is minuscule when I stick to reputable sellers.

This is great advice to a someone new to today's hobby, aka someone returning after being away for years.

If the Op is as concerned with condition as he seems to be and wants to avoid problems my two recommendations are as follows,

1) avoid buying on-line if you are a stickler on condition, instead wait for Covid to end and buy in person, you wont end up as disappointed

2) if you do choose to buy online take Adam's advice and buy from reputable dealers, not from some nut who only uses images to "describe" their cards (as discussed in the OP's thread on the main page).

A primary goal of reputable dealers is to earn repeat business by offering accurately graded cards. IMO, the OP put himself in a bad spot by buying from a seller who only uses an image to describe the card....seek out the reputable dealers who accurately grade their cards if you do choose to continue to build your collection on line and avoid the sellers such as the one mentioned in the thread on the main board.

[ASF123]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

1) avoid buying on-line if you are a stickler on condition, instead wait for Covid to end and buy in person, you wont end up as disappointed

I finally started buying cards again after 27 years, and now you want me to wait until after Covid?? Come on!

Seriously, though, I wouldn't describe myself as a stickler on condition - I just don't want to spend a lot of $ overpaying for my rookie mistakes. Believe me, I would love it if we could go back to the '80s when people were just happy enjoying nice-looking cards rather than trying to parse between 17 different types of "near mint/mint" and sending cards away to be inspected and punished for their every flaw. But that's not reality anymore, so I'm trying to learn to navigate.

I only collect raw cards and have gotten some great deals online. I usually check ending auctions late in the night which helps. I am a night owl so that's one advantage. I also ask for additional closeup pictures on higher end cards which most sellers are happy to provide. I like to get the best condition I can but am not OCD about it. Most of my collection would be a 6 or better if they were graded and I'm happy with that. My best cards and deals have always been in person and usually word of mouth. Looking at some this week from a friend of a friend who no longer wants them.

[jchcollins]

You should be able to tell the difference between a 5 up to a 7 with raw cards, and what they will get if graded most of the time - or what certain raw cards like that online would grade. If graded properly, there is a big difference between a 5 and a 7, and usually a 7 and most 8's. Granted you have to take this with a grain of salt; it's why the phrase "buy the card and not the grade" exists. But generally, if you've gotten a card that is not massively undergraded or was subject to some of the alteration scandal hocus pocus, then I think it's fair to say you should easily see the difference in a 7 vs. a 5 or so, even when buying online.

If your aim is to shop for raw cards and never pay more than a PSA 4 price, that will likely work in many cases - although as was alluded certain sellers who are very well known to grade raw cards accurately (i.e. Greg Morris...) and those cards will be bid up to very competitive prices, especially if you are talking about vintage rookies and HOF'ers. I have seen even lesser known sellers get very competitive prices on raw vintage cards - it's amazing what really good lighting and pictures / detailed scans can do for people who know how to use that to their advantage.