Negro Leagues Recognized As Major

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

I think what's most surprising to me is this notion that Negro League players somehow diminish the order of major league players. Like they're taking something away from somebody by being included. The only players who had anything taken away from them were the Negro League players.

And if your argument is going to be that it's not fair they be called major leaguers, I'd say it's not fair they weren't.

If you're talking about the players who were good enough to be in the Major Leagues, agreed. If you are talking about the rest of the league, which in above posts was estimated to be AAA level, then no. If we're going to call those guys Major Leaguers, then why not call the Triple-A players of that day Major Leaguers too, since they were of similar caliber.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If you're talking about the players who were good enough to be in the Major Leagues, agreed. If you are talking about the rest of the league, which in above posts was estimated to be AAA level, then no. If we're going to call those guys Major Leaguers, then why not call the Triple-A players of that day Major Leaguers too, since they were of similar caliber.

That argument is easily defeated by pointing out that the players in the major leagues who would have otherwise lost their jobs to superior Negro League players are still counted among major leaguers. It really isn't a position that can be defended.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

That argument is easily defeated by pointing out that the players in the major leagues who would have otherwise lost their jobs to superior Negro League players are still counted among major leaguers. It really isn't a position that can be defended.

If you consider the population percentages, there were many more non-black players and therefore much more competition for spots in the Major Leagues. That alone suggests the average player in the ML was better than the average player in the NL.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If you consider the population percentages, there were many more non-black players and therefore much more competition for spots in the Major Leagues. That alone suggests the average player in the ML was better than the average player in the NL.

More than anything else, up until Jackie Robinson, the only real qualification you needed to have to play major league baseball was you had to be white. Talent was never first. And even if you want to go along with your line of thinking, there are a million guys who played a cup of coffee in the major leagues that would fall into your AAA and AA talent pool.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

More than anything else, up until Jackie Robinson, the only real qualification you needed to have to play major league baseball was you had to be white. Talent was never first. And even if you want to go along with your line of thinking, there are a million guys who played a cup of coffee in the major leagues that would fall into your AAA and AA talent pool.

Of course talent was first. Look at how extensive the farm systems were. Rookie League, Single A, Double A, Triple A. Some ML teams having more than one minor league team at the same level. Competition to get to the ML was pretty fierce, and there were many thousands of white players competing for those spots.

[packs]

If talent was first why would you have to be white?

And what are you holding so dear, anyway? Victory Faust was in the right place at the right time. Eddie Gaedel was short. But there is nothing to be said about their inclusion over someone like Bruce Petway.

[pgconboy]

I didn't really expect so much opposition to acknowledging a group of athletes that competed at the highest level available to them while racism prevented them from furthering their careers and reaching their dreams.

Yet here we are.

As an NFL fan this sort of stuff has been grouped into the history of the sport as various leagues were born, went extinct, or merged, etc.

In 1961 Charley Hennigan had one of the most statistically dominating seasons for a WR ever. But we all know the competition in the very first years of the AFL wasn't the greatest and a rational human being can take that into account.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

If talent was first why would you have to be white?

And what are you holding so dear, anyway? Victory Faust was in the right place at the right time. Eddie Gaedel was short. But there is nothing to be said about their inclusion over someone like Bruce Petway.

Charles Victory Faust and Eddie Gaedel were stunts, much like Minnie Minoso playing a few games at age 51, and again at 55.

My concern is the watering down of statistics. If you're Satchell Paige you're a ML caliber player, without doubt. But the stats you accumulate pitching against Triple A level competition are not Major League caliber stats.