Breaking News - Cleveland Indians

[drcy]

One question is why are some people so attached to Cleveland keeping the name Indians. It's pretty much of a nothing, generic beyond generic name. There's nothing particularly special or specific or regional about it.

My complaint about teams names like the Tigers, Bears and Lions is they are so generic and unimaginitive, and Tigers and Lions have nothing to do with Detroit or Michigan. Maybe they had a bear come within 200 miles of Chicago 90 years ago, but it would have been pretty puny and 200 miles would place it in Wisconsin.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by drcy

One question is why are some people so attached to Cleveland keeping the name Indians. It's pretty much of a nothing, generic beyond generic name. There's nothing particularly special or specific or regional about it.

David--Surely you're familiar with why the team was originally named the Indians?! If more people knew the story, there would be a fight to keep the name, but that's not going to happen.

[Throttlesteer]

MLB is being wokeafied.

[perezfan]

It will never stop. They'll always find something to be offended by.

Next are the Chiefs, I'm guessing. Then the Braves. Then the Reds. Then the Yankees. Then the Metropolitans. Then the Cardinals (because Catholic Bishops have feelings too).

Woke MLB will lose more fans, and have no idea why.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

David--Surely you're familiar with why the team was originally named the Indians?! If more people knew the story, there would be a fight to keep the name, but that's not going to happen.

I know about Sockalexis, but don't know that the Sockalexes story behind the name is entirely true. That itself may be a bit of myth.

Woke and PC culture annoy me as much as it annoys anyone, but the general fair standard is it's should be up to the people if it's acceptable that a team use them as a mascot. The Scandanavian Minnesotans (I'm a Scandinavian descendant of Vikings via my dad who was from Minnesotans) chose the Vikings moniker. The team founders included Ole Haugsrud and H. P. Skoglund, which are about as Norwegian of names as you can find. I don't know, but I assume Irish-Americans in Boston are find with the name being called the Celtics. The co-namer of the Celtics was Irish-American, and the other, Walter A. Brown, may have been as well. Not sure what Walter A Brown was, but he was from metro-Boston (Irish-American central) and Brown is a British or Irish surname.

If the name offends Indians than that's the determiner. Though if the name does not then it does not. One cannot merely assume it offends them, and activists often don't represent the views of the majority of the demographic they represent. I don't know what is the polling on Indians on the issue

[Jason19th]

While I agree that the name “Indians” is not in of itself racist, that is not the full history of the nickname. The problem is really Chief Wahoo and that cannot be totally undone by simply dropping the logo. Let’s stop pretending that the name was an honor for the last 100 years. If the name was meant to be an honor they would not have picked an incredibly racist image to wear on their sleeves. The logo was dehumanizing and mean. It was based on stereotype.

I think that many people also have never been taught the actual history of what the county did to native Americans. I am not talking about treaties in the 1830’s or the trail of tears. I am talking about taking children from their parents without consent and either sending them to schools or adoptive white parents to “take the Indian out of them.” This is a practice that continued until the 1970’s. This is practice that is easier to justify when the common culture mocks what it means to be Indian.

Finally I am not saying that all Native names have to be changed. They can be an honor. Look at the Florida Seminoles. For all of that programs other problems they have done a great job working with the Seminole tribe to have actual historical context and celebration of the culture.

[luciobar1980]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

While I agree that the name “Indians” is not in of itself racist, that is not the full history of the nickname. The problem is really Chief Wahoo and that cannot be totally undone by simply dropping the logo. Let’s stop pretending that the name was an honor for the last 100 years. If the name was meant to be an honor they would not have picked an incredibly racist image to wear on their sleeves. The logo was dehumanizing and mean. It was based on stereotype.

I think that many people also have never been taught the actual history of what the county did to native Americans. I am not talking about treaties in the 1830’s or the trail of tears. I am talking about taking children from their parents without consent and either sending them to schools or adoptive white parents to “take the Indian out of them.” This is a practice that continued until the 1970’s. This is practice that is easier to justify when the common culture mocks what it means to be Indian.

Finally I am not saying that all Native names have to be changed. They can be an honor. Look at the Florida Seminoles. For all of that programs other problems they have done a great job working with the Seminole tribe to have actual historical context and celebration of the culture.

Well said.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

David--Surely you're familiar with why the team was originally named the Indians?! If more people knew the story, there would be a fight to keep the name, but that's not going to happen.

Actually that story is a bit of a myth. Sockalexis played for a National league team based in Cleveland, and entirely different franchise that went belly up in 1899. He was 2 years dead by the time the AL team changed their name from the Naps. Many baseball history buffs think the name had more to do with the Boston Braves being a hot team at the time and Native American themed nicknames being popular in general.

[Kutcher55]

The Cleveland Baseball Team.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by drcy

My complaint about teams names like the Tigers, Bears and Lions is they are so generic and unimaginitive, and Tigers and Lions have nothing to do with Detroit or Michigan. Maybe they had a bear come within 200 miles of Chicago 90 years ago, but it would have been pretty puny and 200 miles would place it in Wisconsin.

This is incorrect, I would say all of the older franchise names have deeper meaning (many from their original locations of origin). The Detroit Tigers were named as a tribute to the Civil War Brigade for Detroit, "The Tigers". The original name of the Wolverines was never official. The Portmouth Spartans were relocated to Detroit and were renamed the Lions as a tribute to the popular sports team in the city...The Tigers. It was a theme.

The Bears were again a young franchise named to reflect the popularity of the other popular team of the city and continue a theme as well...The Cubs. They were previously the Decatur Staleys and named after a starch company that owned them. Not exactly a catchy name.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by JustinD

This is incorrect, I would say all of the older franchise names have deeper meaning (many from their original locations of origin). The Detroit Tigers were named as a tribute to the Civil War Brigade for Detroit, "The Tigers". The original name of the Wolverines was never official. The Portmouth Spartans were relocated to Detroit and were renamed the Lions as a tribute to the popular sports team in the city...The Tigers. It was a theme.

The Bears were again a young franchise named to reflect the popularity of the other popular team of the city and continue a theme as well...The Cubs. They were previously the Decatur Staleys and named after a starch company that owned them. Not exactly a catchy name.

My great grandfather played for the Decatur Staleys and that was a sense of pride because he also worked at A.E. Staley Manufacturing and raised on a soy farm who supplied the plant. He unfortunately missed the most important year of their teams history and continued to play on what was more of a club after the Halas team moved up. The history I grew up with was that "Da Bears" were a continued theme playing off of the massively popular baseball franchise as you mention above.

[Tao_Moko]

At the end of the day - why offend if it's entirely unnecessary. Ohio is now the official birthplace of aviation and many other industries. There's plenty of other content to pull from too. Cleveland Aviators has tons of marketing potential.

[perezfan]

Fracking is another big industry in Ohio. The Cleveland Frackers has a pretty nice ring to it, but might it be construed as offensive?

[campyfan39]

Respectfully submitted: There are so many things that "offend" all of us in this world but most of us just go on with our lives and let others do the same; understanding that we will never agree on everything. I think if this were done in another year we could give it more consideration etc. but 2020 has been a year of extremes in so many ways it just seems reactionary. (yes I know its been discussed for a while)

What is next? Braves? Chiefs? Tar Heels? Warriors? Yankees? Mountaineers? Seminoles? Ole Miss Rebels? Utes? Blackhawks? Colonials? Orangemen? Cowboys? Illini? Aztecs? Tribe? etc. Thats just off the top of my head

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

At the end of the day - why offend if it's entirely unnecessary. Ohio is now the official birthplace of aviation and many other industries. There's plenty of other content to pull from too. Cleveland Aviators has tons of marketing potential.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Respectfully submitted: There are so many things that "offend" all of us in this world but most of us just go on with our lives and let others do the same; understanding that we will never agree on everything. I think if this were done in another year we could give it more consideration etc. but 2020 has been a year of extremes in so many ways it just seems reactionary. (yes I know its been discussed for a while)

What is next? Braves? Chiefs? Tar Heels? Warriors? Yankees? Mountaineers? Seminoles? Ole Miss Rebels? Utes? Blackhawks? Colonials? Orangemen? Cowboys? Illini? Aztecs? Tribe? etc. Thats just off the top of my head

Not exactly the same, but I'm a huge Notre Dame fan and of Irish descent. My mascot is literally a short, fighting mad, cartoon leprechaun with red hair(sometimes), donning the colors of the Republic of Ireland. I'm not affected negatively by it, but I don't suggest that everyone should feel that way. I would also survive if we simply became a clover. Ultimately, there's not going to be anyway to make everyone happy. My point was there's other proud recognition available to pull from for Cleveland that might encompass a larger crowd. It's not ever going to be the end of the world if a sports team changes it's name. There are more important issues at hand than sports names and mascots.

[packs]

I know it may be hard to believe but there are almost no original names in sports. Even in the examples given, Ole Miss was known as the Flood until 1936. Time has a way of moving forward and after a while nobody even remembers there was a different name.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

It's not ever going to be the end of the world if a sports team changes it's name. There are more important issues at hand than sports names and mascots.

Very true. But, that can be applied both to those who are annoyed with it, or those pushing desperately to change it. As previously pointed out, there are plenty of things to be frustrated, stressed, or even ill about in 2020. I believe a lot of the annoyance is that sports teams' names should be WAY down the list of priorities.

Perhaps people have too much time and pent up frustration from sitting at home and feel they "need to make a difference"?