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[71buc]

My father is a life long 80 year old Tribe fan from Sharon Pennsylvania. He quit wearing his Chief Wahoo coat last year. I asked him why? I asked him if he thought the team name and Chief Wahoo were racist symbols. He answered, “I don’t know, and it’s not my place to tell Native Americans what they should or should not find racially offensive or insensitive. It’s just coat, I’ll survive” He is a very smooth old guy. My mother always described him as James Dean mixed with a Miles Davis sense of cool. My mother was right. I have spent 57 years trying to measure up to him and have always fallen woefully short.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by 71buc

My father is a life long 80 year old Tribe fan from Sharon Pennsylvania. He quit wearing his Chief Wahoo coat last year. I asked him why? I asked him if he thought the team name and Chief Wahoo were racist symbols. He answered, “I don’t know, and it’s not my place to tell Native Americans what they should or should not find racially offensive or insensitive. It’s just coat, I’ll survive” He is a very smooth old guy. My mother always described him as James Dean mixed with a Miles Davis sense of cool. My mother was right. I have spent 57 years trying to measure up to him and have always fallen woefully short.

Great tribute to your father. I'm going to start trying to measure up to him as well.

[Case12]

The University of Minnesota got it right. The Golden Gophers. Who could complain about a gopher with a cape?

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by Case12

The University of Minnesota got it right. The Golden Gophers. Who could complain about a gopher with a cape?

People with buck teeth?

[prewarsports]

If you study Sockalexis, it is 100% not a myth and completely true, but you have to understand the context to get how the timeline works. It had nothing to do with honoring his death and it drives me crazy when people say "he died in 1913 and the team changed names in 1915, therefore its a myth."

In a short summation, the Cleveland franchise had a buzz when Sockalexis came up that is impossible to understand today. The story of how he got to Cleveland is even better but I wont go there. It was a Lebron in high school thing, or Jeremy "Linsanity" on a national level, but MORE because baseball was the only sport people cared about. Every team wanted him, everyone knew he was the most talented player in the nation (college or pro at the time) and when Cleveland got him, it was a HUGE national event. For that summer of 1896, Cleveland was the center of the baseball world and it was EXCITING. Reporters came from Europe to do stories on him and his exploits were front page news. The team became known as the "Indians" unofficially the entire year. They sold out to packed stadiums with crowds outside trying to "scalp" tickets!

Fast forward twenty years later, they were the "Naps" and then their leader jumped to the Federal League. Cleveland was in a bad spot and wanted to regain something to be proud of, recapture some sort of buzz about the team again. It was at this time they decided to harken back to the "Indians", back when it was fun and exciting to be a Cleveland baseball fan. It was a nod to Sockalexis' time in Cleveland, but not a direct naming of the franchise after him, which is where people get misguided.

[nolemmings]

Not entirely true. Lajoie did not jump to the Federal League, putting his team in a bad spot. He was traded to the Philadelphia A's after a poor season. The owner was not caught off guard. It is possible and perhaps likely the team remained the Naps out of deference to Lajoie even after his skills had waned, but they had been called by other nicknames after Sockalexis had gone.

Originally Posted by prewarsports

If you study Sockalexis, it is 100% not a myth and completely true, but you have to understand the context to get how the timeline works. It had nothing to do with honoring his death and it drives me crazy when people say "he died in 1913 and the team changed names in 1915, therefore its a myth."

In a short summation, the Cleveland franchise had a buzz when Sockalexis came up that is impossible to understand today. The story of how he got to Cleveland is even better but I wont go there. It was a Lebron in high school thing, or Jeremy "Linsanity" on a national level, but MORE because baseball was the only sport people cared about. Every team wanted him, everyone knew he was the most talented player in the nation (college or pro at the time) and when Cleveland got him, it was a HUGE national event. For that summer of 1896, Cleveland was the center of the baseball world and it was EXCITING. Reporters came from Europe to do stories on him and his exploits were front page news. The team became known as the "Indians" unofficially the entire year. They sold out to packed stadiums with crowds outside trying to "scalp" tickets!

Fast forward twenty years later, they were the "Naps" and then their leader jumped to the Federal League. Cleveland was in a bad spot and wanted to regain something to be proud of, recapture some sort of buzz about the team again. It was at this time they decided to harken back to the "Indians", back when it was fun and exciting to be a Cleveland baseball fan. It was a nod to Sockalexis' time in Cleveland, but not a direct naming of the franchise after him, which is where people get misguided.

[t206fix]

Not sure how valid the 90% figure is...

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/0...redskins-name/

The term Indian is not offensive at all - funny story, I tell my 12yo daughter she is an Indian, she tells me she's Native American.

This shit is offensive, and I'm glad it'll be gone. Call me woke or a social justice warrior, but no Native should ever have to look at this and think in their minds, "Is this what an Indian is? Is this how people see me?" There are many Native kids struggling everyday with their identities, and this needs to stop on all levels. The lack of humanity and empathy is staggering to me in the sake of the inconvenience of changing a sports team mascot.

[BCauley]

Cleveland Wild Things

[brianp-beme]

Cleveland Mistake by the Lake

Brian

[baseball tourist]

[The term Indian is not offensive at all [/QUOTE]

It’s not offensive to you perhaps. But if you read the team’s statement, it is clearly so to a number of indigenous people they consider community stakeholders. That is what matters.

[gawaintheknight]

Originally Posted by 71buc

My father is a life long 80 year old Tribe fan from Sharon Pennsylvania. He quit wearing his Chief Wahoo coat last year. I asked him why? I asked him if he thought the team name and Chief Wahoo were racist symbols. He answered, “I don’t know, and it’s not my place to tell Native Americans what they should or should not find racially offensive or insensitive. It’s just coat, I’ll survive” He is a very smooth old guy. My mother always described him as James Dean mixed with a Miles Davis sense of cool. My mother was right. I have spent 57 years trying to measure up to him and have always fallen woefully short.

+1