Hall of Fame Early Baseball Committee

[packs]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Stovey was one of the ten finalists on the 2016 pre-integration ballot. I believe he received 50% of the vote. 75% was required for induction.

Does anyone know who casts these votes? I thought I remembered seeing a random list of current HOFers as the panel, but why them? What do they know about someone like Harry Stovey?

[Kenny Cole]

According to Wikipedia, the 2016 pre-integration committee had the following members:

Hall of Famers: Bert Blyleven, Bobby Cox, Pat Gillick and Phil Niekro
Executives: Chuck Armstrong, Bill DeWitt, Gary Hughes and Tal Smith
Media/Historians: Steve Hirdt, Peter Morris, Jack O'Connell, Claire Smith, Tim Sullivan, T.R. Sullivan, Gary Thorne and Tim Wendel

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by packs

Does anyone know who casts these votes? I thought I remembered seeing a random list of current HOFers as the panel, but why them? What do they know about someone like Harry Stovey?

A historical overview committee picks the 10 nominees to be considered. I'm not sure how many people are on the oversight committee. The 10 nominees are then voted on by 16 era committee members with 12 votes or 75% required for induction. That is the process. The problem is, as you stated, who does the voting on both the oversight committee and the era committees. These committees should be stacked with baseball historians expert in the era they are voting on, not HOFers, executives, or, for that matter, media personnel, a vast majority of which know nothing about the era they are voting on. Peter Morris is the only true baseball historian on the list in the previous post. What you need is 16 Peter Morrises on the committee.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

A historical overview committee picks the 10 nominees to be considered. I'm not sure how many people are on the oversight committee. The 10 nominees are then voted on by 16 era committee members with 12 votes or 75% required for induction. That is the process. The problem is, as you stated, who does the voting on both the oversight committee and the era committees. These committees should be stacked with baseball historians expert in the era they are voting on, not HOFers, executives, or, for that matter, media personnel, a vast majority of which know nothing about the era they are voting on. Peter Morris is the only true baseball historian on the list in the previous post. What you need is 16 Peter Morrises on the committee.

Agree! The Hall really needs to get smarter with this.

[PowderedH2O]

I'll add two to the list that would be overlooked because they didn't stick around long enough to get those magic milestones.

Bob Johnson and Wes Ferrell

Yes, there are a lot of guys in from this time period, but a lot of those guys weren't as good as these two guys. Not overwhelming candidates, but if they went in they certainly wouldn't lower the HOF's standards by any stretch.

[GeoPoto]

I find it hard to argue for his inclusion in the HoF, although Ted Williams called him the "best hitter not in the Hall" and he had his almost certain HoF career truncated by the call to duty. But, this thread gives me another chance to bring him up.

Everybody on this forum knows 1941 saw Joe DiMaggio hit safely in 56 consecutive games (get stopped and then hit in 16 more!) and Ted Williams go 6 for 8 on the last day to hit .406 for the season (only .002 below DiMaggio’s average during his 56-game streak!). But how many know who led the AL in hits that year?

It was Washington SS Cecil Travis, who was halfway to the HoF at the end of the 1941 season -- he had 1,370 career hits and a .327 average before what would have been his age-28 season. But duty beckoned and like many ball players he joined the armed forces that winter. Although he spent most of the war playing BB for military teams, he shipped out to the ETO in time for the Battle of the Bulge, during which he earned a Bronze Star and suffered frost bite so bad an operation was required to save his feet.

He eventually returned to the Senators while still only 31 years old (military service consumed his age-28, -29, -30, and -31 seasons), but the physical trauma suffered in Europe had robbed him of his ability to excel and his career quickly petered out. Despite hitting less than .250 in parts of three seasons before his retirement (following ‘Cecil Travis Night” in 1947 at Griffith Stadium with General Dwight Eisenhower in attendance), his career .314 batting average is still the best by a SS in AL history and third in MLB history (behind Honus Wagner (who else?) and Arky Vaughan).

So, while considering the possible candidates surfaced in this thread, most of whom have stronger career counting stats, remember to at least raise a glass to what might have been for Cecil Travis, who protected democracy instead of the 4-5 hole and discarded the second half of a HoF career in the process.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1602936717
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1602936782
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1602936791

[nat]

"Wes Ferrell"

The hall of fame got the wrong brother. Wes would have been a decent choice. Rick is wildly underqualified. The representative Rick Ferrell card in my hall of fame collection is the Goudey premium that shows both brothers. The hall can't get it right, but at least my collection can.

[GeoPoto]

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1602944605

[shagrotn77]

Originally Posted by nat

"Wes Ferrell"

The hall of fame got the wrong brother. Wes would have been a decent choice. Rick is wildly underqualified. The representative Rick Ferrell card in my hall of fame collection is the Goudey premium that shows both brothers. The hall can't get it right, but at least my collection can.

Wes Ferrell of the career 4.04 ERA? Come on now. Rick was a terrible choice. Wes would have been, too.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

I find it hard to argue for his inclusion in the HoF, although Ted Williams called him the "best hitter not in the Hall" and he had his almost certain HoF career truncated by the call to duty. But, this thread gives me another chance to bring him up.

Everybody on this forum knows 1941 saw Joe DiMaggio hit safely in 56 consecutive games (get stopped and then hit in 16 more!) and Ted Williams go 6 for 8 on the last day to hit .406 for the season (only .002 below DiMaggio’s average during his 56-game streak!). But how many know who led the AL in hits that year?

It was Washington SS Cecil Travis, who was halfway to the HoF at the end of the 1941 season -- he had 1,370 career hits and a .327 average before what would have been his age-28 season. But duty beckoned and like many ball players he joined the armed forces that winter. Although he spent most of the war playing BB for military teams, he shipped out to the ETO in time for the Battle of the Bulge, during which he earned a Bronze Star and suffered frost bite so bad an operation was required to save his feet.

He eventually returned to the Senators while still only 31 years old (military service consumed his age-28, -29, -30, and -31 seasons), but the physical trauma suffered in Europe had robbed him of his ability to excel and his career quickly petered out. Despite hitting less than .250 in parts of three seasons before his retirement (following ‘Cecil Travis Night” in 1947 at Griffith Stadium with General Dwight Eisenhower in attendance), his career .314 batting average is still the best by a SS in AL history and third in MLB history (behind Honus Wagner (who else?) and Arky Vaughan).

So, while considering the possible candidates surfaced in this thread, most of whom have stronger career counting stats, remember to at least raise a glass to what might have been for Cecil Travis, who protected democracy instead of the 4-5 hole and discarded the second half of a HoF career in the process.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1602936717
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1602936782
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1602936791

Bravo! Couldn’t agree more.

[nat]

Not all 4.04 ERAs are created the same. Ferrell pitched in a very high-offense era. As noted upthread, his ERA was 16% better than league average (once you adjust for the parks he played in). The fancy way of saying this is that he had a 116 ERA+. Here are the hall of famers with a worse ERA relative to their leagues:

Jim Bunning
Steve Carlton
Fergie Jenkins
Phil Niekro
Eppa Rixey
Robin Roberts
Mickey Welch
Chief Bender
Waite Hoyt
Nolan Ryan
Jack Chesbro
Jessie Haines
Red Ruffing
Burleigh Grimes
Don Sutton
Pud Galvin
Early Wynn
Herb Pennock
Jack Morris
Catfish Hunter
Rube Marquard

He wouldn't be inner-circle or anything. And many of the hall of famers who were worse pitchers than he was pitched far more innings, which has value.
But he would be a decent pick; not out of place given the other guys in the hall. He was also a really good hitter. For his career he had a 280 batting average, 351 on base percentage, and 446 slugging percentage. His OPS was exactly league average (once you adjust for the parks he played in). A guy who pitches as well as Jim Bunning but is also a league average batter is really valuable.