Hall of Fame Early Baseball Committee

[commishbob]

Can we get Buck O'Neil in the Hall? Please?

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Can we get Buck O'Neil in the Hall? Please?

Agreed. He might not have had eye-popping Negro League accolades but his overall body of work and him being an ambassador of the sport definitely warrants inclusion.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Agreed. He might not have had eye-popping Negro League accolades but his overall body of work and him being an ambassador of the sport definitely warrants inclusion.

I definitely want to see Buck "officially" in the Hall, but with that said, He has a HOF award named after him and a statue at the hall, so in my mind he IS a Hall of Famer and will always be represented as such in my collection.

[packs]

He would not be eligible to be inducted as part of this committee but I would love to see Buck and Lefty O'Doul go in together for their contributions to baseball.

[bgar3]

Agree: Doc Adams

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Can we get Buck O'Neil in the Hall? Please?

Let's keep this drumbeat going. It's a shame it didn't happen earlier, when Buck was alive and could have given a speech at his induction. At the very least, the world could certainly use some Buck O'Neil stories to bring some joy to everyone.

[HexsHeroes]

.
Isn't there a category for individual contributions to the game of baseball, outside of individual performance ?

If so, I would love to see more HOF consideration for Lefty O'Doul, and the contributions he made towards growth and importance of baseball in Japan.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by aguinness

let's keep this drumbeat going. It's a shame it didn't happen earlier, when buck was alive and could have given a speech at his induction. At the very least, the world could certainly use some buck o'neil stories to bring some joy to everyone.

I just finished this book for the second time. I doubt anyone could read it and not become an advocate for him getting in.

Best book I’ve read in years.

AF26DB61-909A-4E2C-8D1F-5D373E742BFC.jpg

[Jason19th]

I will preface this comment by noting that I am a long term Negro League collector who will always be in Buck O’neil’s debt for the work he did bring the history of the Negro League to life and creating the Negro League Museum.

Buck O’Neil is not a hall of famer by any definition that the hall has ever used. As a player he was an no power first basemen who hit .260 and had a short careers. Using available stats Seamheads shows an OPS of .681 and a OPS+ of 101. He wasn’t someone who was kept out of the league because of his color. Had integration come 10 years earlier I doubt he would have made the majors much less been a regular. Think about the 1sr basemen of the 1930’s and 1940’s. A lot of them were better than Buck and by a wide margin.

As a manager he had a very short career- which I acknowledge was in part so to the end of the negro leagues.

As a scout he had a long and respected career but name me someone who got in the Hall based on scouting

He as never an owner or team executive.

He did help to preserve a history of the Negro Leagues but so did a lot of guys. Guys like Max Manning, Charles Biot, and Lester Lockett were tremendous ambassadors of the game. Quincy Troupe wrote a great book in the 1970 which was one of the early first person narratives about the league. I think it is also worth noting that but for the fact that Buck Leonard having a stroke, O’Neil was only going to have a small role in Ken Burns baseball and likely never would have gotten the national fame he received

O’neil has done some much for baseball but so have Sam Lacy, Shirley Povich, Pete Palmer, Bill James and so many more.

Buck O’Neil is a great man. He is not a hall of famer

[esd10]

Jake daubert, bill dahlen and Tony mullane all deserve to be in the hof

[nat]

"I would love to see more HOF consideration for Lefty O'Doul, and the contributions he made towards growth and importance of baseball in Japan."

FWIW, he is in the Japanese hall of fame.

The guys who get into the American hall for this sort of thing are 19th c. guys. The Harry Wrights of the world. But between being a pitcher, a star batter, being heavily involved in Japanese baseball, and being a force in the PCL for ages, O'Doul definitely had an extraordinary life in baseball.

[packs]

In 2024 Ichiro will be inducted into the HOF. Some would argue that moment is only made possible by Lefty O'Doul.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I will preface this comment by noting that I am a long term Negro League collector who will always be in Buck O’neil’s debt for the work he did bring the history of the Negro League to life and creating the Negro League Museum.

Buck O’Neil is not a hall of famer by any definition that the hall has ever used. As a player he was an no power first basemen who hit .260 and had a short careers. Using available stats Seamheads shows an OPS of .681 and a OPS+ of 101. He wasn’t someone who was kept out of the league because of his color. Had integration come 10 years earlier I doubt he would have made the majors much less been a regular. Think about the 1sr basemen of the 1930’s and 1940’s. A lot of them were better than Buck and by a wide margin.

As a manager he had a very short career- which I acknowledge was in part so to the end of the negro leagues.

As a scout he had a long and respected career but name me someone who got in the Hall based on scouting

He as never an owner or team executive.

He did help to preserve a history of the Negro Leagues but so did a lot of guys. Guys like Max Manning, Charles Biot, and Lester Lockett were tremendous ambassadors of the game. Quincy Troupe wrote a great book in the 1970 which was one of the early first person narratives about the league. I think it is also worth noting that but for the fact that Buck Leonard having a stroke, O’Neil was only going to have a small role in Ken Burns baseball and likely never would have gotten the national fame he received

O’neil has done some much for baseball but so have Sam Lacy, Shirley Povich, Pete Palmer, Bill James and so many more.

Buck O’Neil is a great man. He is not a hall of famer

While I agree that Buck O'Neil does not meet HOF standards either as a player or as a manager when his achievements are viewed in isolation, I would argue and have argued that he more than meets the the somewhat fuzzy HOF requirements as a contributor when his achievements are viewed in total. That is particularly true in his case given the fact that his opportunities to excel were, to say the least, negatively impacted by the racial prejudices that existed during his time. Doc Adams is literally the only person I can think of off the top of my head who contributed as much to baseball as Buck O'Neil did as a non-player or manager, and who is not already in. In that regard, there are many who are already in who contributed far less, such as Morgan Bulkeley, who was nothing more than a figurehead. And there are many who clamor for Adams' induction. I personally think it would be fitting if both were be inducted.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I will preface this comment by noting that I am a long term Negro League collector who will always be in Buck O’neil’s debt for the work he did bring the history of the Negro League to life and creating the Negro League Museum.

Buck O’Neil is not a hall of famer by any definition that the hall has ever used. As a player he was an no power first basemen who hit .260 and had a short careers. Using available stats Seamheads shows an OPS of .681 and a OPS+ of 101. He wasn’t someone who was kept out of the league because of his color. Had integration come 10 years earlier I doubt he would have made the majors much less been a regular. Think about the 1sr basemen of the 1930’s and 1940’s. A lot of them were better than Buck and by a wide margin.

As a manager he had a very short career- which I acknowledge was in part so to the end of the negro leagues.

As a scout he had a long and respected career but name me someone who got in the Hall based on scouting

He as never an owner or team executive.

He did help to preserve a history of the Negro Leagues but so did a lot of guys. Guys like Max Manning, Charles Biot, and Lester Lockett were tremendous ambassadors of the game. Quincy Troupe wrote a great book in the 1970 which was one of the early first person narratives about the league. I think it is also worth noting that but for the fact that Buck Leonard having a stroke, O’Neil was only going to have a small role in Ken Burns baseball and likely never would have gotten the national fame he received

O’neil has done some much for baseball but so have Sam Lacy, Shirley Povich, Pete Palmer, Bill James and so many more.

Buck O’Neil is a great man. He is not a hall of famer

You couldn't have worded my own sentiments any better! Great job.

The overwhelming emotional attachment people have for Buck's character tends to affect their logic when it comes to their stance on him being inducted. He possessed a very rare brand of kindness that made everyone feel welcome and could do so whether you met him in person or even just watched some Ken Burns. That was his greatest gift.

Yes, he was a great ambassador, but so was Lefty O'Doul. On top of that, O'Doul was quite the player. Let's hope they would first look at O'Doul's possibility as a candidate for induction before thinking about Buck. There are other candidates more deserving than either of these fellows, however.