Hall of Fame Early Baseball Committee

[nat]

Caruthers didn't really pitch all that much. 2828 innings, even though it was the 19th century. Roy Halladay is the poster child for short career HOFer (Koufax is a special case). Roy pitched 2750 innings, but they were better innings. His ERA+ (ERA adjusted for the park he plays in, and then compared to league average) is 131, Caruthers' is 122. That Caruthers was also a good batter is also a good point. He seems like a borderline case to me, but of course it shouldn't be surprising that it's borderline cases that we've got left, considering how many opportunities we've had to induct these guys.

Bill Dahlen is a real oversight. He compares favorably to Alan Trammell, who really should have been inducted right away, but at least he made it eventually.

I could get behind Ross Barnes too, but he didn't play in enough seasons to qualify. The hall has waived the requirement before, but I doubt they'd do it for a guy who has been dead for 105 years.

[CardCollector]

I agree that Halladay deserves to be in, but I'd still compare Caruthers favorably to him. You're totally right about ERA+, it's just that I probably give more weight to Caruthers' ridiculous five-year WAR run that gives him some credit for his consistency and effectiveness even while being overused.

[conor912]

I know his career was shortened significantly, but I’dlove to see Smoky Joe Wood get some consideration. In 7 seasons as a pitcher he averaged 16 wins/year and has a lifetime ERA of 2. I know he falls short in other categories, but so don't plenty of other guys who are already in.

[commishbob]

Can we get Buck O'Neil in the Hall? Please?

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Can we get Buck O'Neil in the Hall? Please?

Agreed. He might not have had eye-popping Negro League accolades but his overall body of work and him being an ambassador of the sport definitely warrants inclusion.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Agreed. He might not have had eye-popping Negro League accolades but his overall body of work and him being an ambassador of the sport definitely warrants inclusion.

I definitely want to see Buck "officially" in the Hall, but with that said, He has a HOF award named after him and a statue at the hall, so in my mind he IS a Hall of Famer and will always be represented as such in my collection.

[packs]

He would not be eligible to be inducted as part of this committee but I would love to see Buck and Lefty O'Doul go in together for their contributions to baseball.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Can we get Buck O'Neil in the Hall? Please?

Let's keep this drumbeat going. It's a shame it didn't happen earlier, when Buck was alive and could have given a speech at his induction. At the very least, the world could certainly use some Buck O'Neil stories to bring some joy to everyone.

[HexsHeroes]

.
Isn't there a category for individual contributions to the game of baseball, outside of individual performance ?

If so, I would love to see more HOF consideration for Lefty O'Doul, and the contributions he made towards growth and importance of baseball in Japan.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by aguinness

let's keep this drumbeat going. It's a shame it didn't happen earlier, when buck was alive and could have given a speech at his induction. At the very least, the world could certainly use some buck o'neil stories to bring some joy to everyone.

I just finished this book for the second time. I doubt anyone could read it and not become an advocate for him getting in.

Best book I’ve read in years.

AF26DB61-909A-4E2C-8D1F-5D373E742BFC.jpg

[Jason19th]

I will preface this comment by noting that I am a long term Negro League collector who will always be in Buck O’neil’s debt for the work he did bring the history of the Negro League to life and creating the Negro League Museum.

Buck O’Neil is not a hall of famer by any definition that the hall has ever used. As a player he was an no power first basemen who hit .260 and had a short careers. Using available stats Seamheads shows an OPS of .681 and a OPS+ of 101. He wasn’t someone who was kept out of the league because of his color. Had integration come 10 years earlier I doubt he would have made the majors much less been a regular. Think about the 1sr basemen of the 1930’s and 1940’s. A lot of them were better than Buck and by a wide margin.

As a manager he had a very short career- which I acknowledge was in part so to the end of the negro leagues.

As a scout he had a long and respected career but name me someone who got in the Hall based on scouting

He as never an owner or team executive.

He did help to preserve a history of the Negro Leagues but so did a lot of guys. Guys like Max Manning, Charles Biot, and Lester Lockett were tremendous ambassadors of the game. Quincy Troupe wrote a great book in the 1970 which was one of the early first person narratives about the league. I think it is also worth noting that but for the fact that Buck Leonard having a stroke, O’Neil was only going to have a small role in Ken Burns baseball and likely never would have gotten the national fame he received

O’neil has done some much for baseball but so have Sam Lacy, Shirley Povich, Pete Palmer, Bill James and so many more.

Buck O’Neil is a great man. He is not a hall of famer

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by nat

Caruthers didn't really pitch all that much. 2828 innings, even though it was the 19th century. Roy Halladay is the poster child for short career HOFer (Koufax is a special case). Roy pitched 2750 innings, but they were better innings. His ERA+ (ERA adjusted for the park he plays in, and then compared to league average) is 131, Caruthers' is 122. That Caruthers was also a good batter is also a good point. He seems like a borderline case to me, but of course it shouldn't be surprising that it's borderline cases that we've got left, considering how many opportunities we've had to induct these guys.

Bill Dahlen is a real oversight. He compares favorably to Alan Trammell, who really should have been inducted right away, but at least he made it eventually.

I could get behind Ross Barnes too, but he didn't play in enough seasons to qualify. The hall has waived the requirement before, but I doubt they'd do it for a guy who has been dead for 105 years.

They can put Barnes in as a Pioneer to get around the 10 year rule.