Never Seen Broad Leaf 460

[runandgun]

This was part of the amazing find from this past week. I believe this is the first time one has surfaced. I know Ted was compiling a database, based on what I saw, so I figured I would post an image so it can be added. Thanks.

[Tao_Moko]

It's amazing the new finds with this set. Not only a super rare back, but has very nice eye appeal too. Congratulations!

[runandgun]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

It's amazing the new finds with this set. Not only a super rare back, but has very nice eye appeal too. Congratulations!

Thank you!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by runandgun

This was part of the amazing find from this past week. I believe this is the first time one has surfaced. I know Ted was compiling a database, based on what I saw, so I figured I would post an image so it can be added. Thanks.

Hi runandgun

Your Magee card is absolutely amazing.....and, I really appreciate you sharing it with us.

I added it to my confirmed BROAD LEAF 460 list. Here are the 6 subjects (of a possible 35) remaining to be confirmed with this back......

Ames (hands above head)
Bender (no trees)
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chase (blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Larry Doyle (bat)


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[runandgun]

I appreciate the amazing work you and others have done on this page compiling so much information on rare issues. It is a great resource for anyone who collects or is simply trying to get educated about the hobby. Keep up the great work.

[scottglevy]

For anyone who doubts just how rare BL460 is....

Back in the “day” which for my dad and I was the ‘80s into the mid ‘90s we collected a LOT of rawt206s often purchased as large lots. Folks didn’t pay much attention to backs and we found every single back type with the exception of Drum, BL460, Brown Lenox and Brown OM. I even found 3 Uzits (one on a Cobb bat off which was particularly awesome) over the years ...those other cards are just so so tough!!

[ctownboy]

Hello,

I guess I missed it but what was the find and what else was in it?

David

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by runandgun

This was part of the amazing find from this past week. I believe this is the first time one has surfaced. I know Ted was compiling a database, based on what I saw, so I figured I would post an image so it can be added. Thanks.

Thank you for sharing this find. Had to add this to my confirmed list and add one more to the number of a complete master set.

[etsmith]

Here's a Hal Chase blue background Broadleaf (not mine) from Huggins and Scott 2014. [/ATTACH]417011[/ATTACH] [/ATTACH]417012[/ATTACH]

[irv]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Hello,

I guess I missed it but what was the find and what else was in it?

David

I guess this is a tough question? I, as did someone else, asked in the OP's other thread and still no reply?

I am not, for one second, suggesting something fishy is going on, I just enjoy reading stories about these finds so I'd also like to read about this one if possible?

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by etsmith

Here's a Hal Chase blue background Broadleaf (not mine) from Huggins and Scott 2014. [/ATTACH]417011[/ATTACH] [/ATTACH]417012[/ATTACH]

That Chase has a 350 series back.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Hello,

I guess I missed it but what was the find and what else was in it?

David

Agree. Could you post the other 460 broad leafs that came in this collection?

Thanks for sharing

[runandgun]

Cards have been shipped to PSA once they return I’ll post some images. Thanks.

[prestigecollectibles]

Heritage auctioned off a total of 8 different players

[rebelsart]

Congratulations on this amazing find! Always happy to see new T206 front/back confirnations.

The T206 resource website has been updated to show this new confirmation:

http://t206resource.com/Broad%20Leaf...Checklist.html

Art M.

[tedzan]

Near the end of the T206 press runs (circa late 1910-early 1911), American Lithographic separated the 63 subjects in the 350/460 series into 2 print groups.

On display here are the 35 subjects that were printed with the BROAD LEAF 460 back. Listed below are the 29 subjects, which (to date) have been confirmed
with the BROAD LEAF 460 back......


Group A
.





Baker
M. Brown (Chicago)
Cobb (red portrait)
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Johnson (pitching)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Magee (bat)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)

Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing)
Cy Young (glove)


Listed here are 6 subjects from this group that have yet to be discovered with BROAD LEAF 460 backs.
I expect these T206's will eventually be found with BROAD LEAF 460 backs. In recent years, discoveries of BROAD LEAF 460 cards tend to trickle in.
Approx. a year ago, Donlin (bat) was a new discovery. Now we have Magee (bat) as a new discovery.

Ames (hands above head)
Bender (no trees)
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chase (blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Larry Doyle (bat)



NOTE....that the 460-only series subjects were NOT printed with the BROAD LEAF 460 back.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by rebelsart

Congratulations on this amazing find! Always happy to see new T206 front/back confirnations.

The T206 resource website has been updated to show this new confirmation:

http://t206resource.com/Broad%20Leaf...Checklist.html

Art M.

I just looked at your website. It’s very nice with a ton of information. Thank you for posting that link.

[Kidnapped18]

Art M and Ted Z
What is the deal with Ames? Why is he listed separate on T206 Resource under probable no prints making total 34? But Ted Z has him in Group A for a total of 35?

Is there not a consensus on Ames or am I missing something?

Thanks Tony

[Howe’s Hunter]

Haven’t seen you in the site for some time. Take care.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

Art M and Ted Z
What is the deal with Ames? Why is he listed separate on T206 Resource under probable no prints making total 34? But Ted Z has him in Group A for a total of 35?

Is there not a consensus on Ames or am I missing something?

Thanks Tony

Hi Tony

Bear with me, I am going into a long dissertation to prove to you that the Ames (hands above head) card was printed in what I refer to as Group A of the the 350/460 series.

From years of research regarding the 63 subjects the 350/460 series, I presented a theory which I posted in April 2010 on Net54 in which I hypothesize that the AB 460 and
UZIT cards were printed as pairs. Also, BL 460 and red HINDU cards were printed as pairs. Furthermore, these two groups of pairs are Mutually-Exclusive.

Illustrated here are scans of the 350/460 series subjects in order to show how these mutually-exclusive backs in this series resulted from American Lithographic separating
these 63 subjects into two print groups.



Group A of the 350/460 series includes 35 subjects printed and issued with these four 460-type backs (circa..late 1910 > early 1911).

. . .
Factory #25 VA ......................... Factory#42 N.C.


Conversely, these 35 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.... AMERICAN BEAUTY 460....UZIT


Group A

.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Group B




Group B of the 350/460 series includes 28 subjects printed and issued with these two 460-type backs (circa..Feb-Mar 1911).

.


Conversely, these 28 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 25.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42.. red HINDU.. BROAD LEAF 460



Tony, my above stated theory has withstood the test of 10+ years (so far). In fact, I have offered a $500 reward to anyone who can come up with an authentic Ames (hands
above head) card with either an AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back or a UZIT back. I am that certain of my theory.

T206 Resource is a good website....but in this case, they have this one all wrong.

I completely expect that this Ames card will eventually be discovered with a BROAD LEAF 460 back, and a Red HINDU back.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Ronnie73]

Group "A" was also the cards only found in the Yellow/Brown Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Scraps.

The Red Ames Arms Over Head is found in the Yellow/Brown Scrap only.
Just more proof that certain cards only have certain backs.
Many still don't realize that there's levels beyond just basic Print Groups.

Many years ago, Ted and I were decoding these Group "A" and "B" cards without even knowing we were both on the same track and research. After Ted released his theory on the two groups within the Print Group, I backed up his theory with my research on the Sweet Caporal "No Prints" and our list breakdowns matched exactly.

My early research back in 2011 on these groups were my way of knowing exactly what "No Prints" to search for before they even showed up. None were even known at this point. I just figured there was a chance a sheet or two slipped by. When 27 different cards became public knowledge years later, I knew one card was still missing and kept quiet until I finally found that last number 28th card of Nap Lajoie With Bat. It's funny that even after I found that last card on my list, many people didn't believe it to be real. But then again, they didn't have a three part checklist that I made in 2011. I had mine broken down as Group "A" without the Super Prints, Group "B", and then Group "C" Super Prints Only.

Group "B" were the cards only found in Full Color Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Scraps.

There's only one anomaly which is a Sherry Magee With Bat that showed up as a full color card. But it's still a Scrap, so it's difficult to say how that one made it out. Maybe a sheet of full color Group "A" cards made it out but had an extremely low survival rate and that's why only that one card has surfaced so far.

The T206 set is such a fun set to dissect and research. And by doing this, you can find many hidden rarities out there that just look like basic commons to most.

[Kidnapped18]

Ted thanks for the explanation...I enjoy reading and learning about the T206's!
I only have one that I acquired last month so my T206 journey has just started.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rebelsart

Congratulations on this amazing find! Always happy to see new T206 front/back confirnations.

The T206 resource website has been updated to show this new confirmation:

http://t206resource.com/Broad%20Leaf...Checklist.html

Art M.

Thanks Art. It is a great addition no doubt.

.