1966 Topps High's - Any uncut sheets or partial sheets known?

[JollyElm]

The stripe is definitely light blue. In fact, it seems to be just a tad darker than the light blue in the body of the checklist.

Here's #518 stuck above the #517 in question. The colors are not a match...

517518comparison.jpg

My reason for wondering if "White Sox" versions of the checklist could have also appeared in the 7th series is because the card above could possibly (but most likely doubtfully) be the #526 Twins team. if you look towards the left (of the original pic, not the one posted here), there is blue over there too, matching the setup of the team cards and the rookie cards with the angled color stripe. Was there a team card in blue in the 6th series, and/or is there a different card that has a blue 'nameplate' and also a blue stripe (or whatever) on the upper left side?? If there's a 'blue' rookies card in the 6th series, than that's probably it, right?

This crap is fascinating!!!!

[Cliff Bowman]

The #518 Braves Rookies is the only team or rookies card from #447-522 with a similar color, all of the other team and rookies cards in that series are colors nowhere even close.

[JollyElm]

Here's more food for thought...that adds even more wrinkles to the problem. The checklist has the red/magenta plate very much misaligned, so it's possible that the light blue stripe on the card above it could very well supposed to be violet/purple (or perhaps a different color?), but the red is missing (and would have been printed above the blue sliver that is visible). There's no way to know if the blue we see is as it's supposed to be, or if it is missing a part of its color makeup. This logical hole keeps getting deeper.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Here's more food for thought...that adds even more wrinkles to the problem. The checklist has the red/magenta plate very much misaligned, so it's possible that the light blue stripe on the card above it could very well supposed to be violet/purple (or perhaps a different color?), but the red is missing (and would have been printed above the blue sliver that is visible). There's no way to know if the blue we see is as it's supposed to be, or if it is missing a part of its color makeup. This logical hole keeps getting deeper.

If anyone knows what color you get when you mix red with light blue then we can nail it .

[JollyElm]

One other thing of note. If you examine the blue sliver above the checklist, it is undoubtedly much thinner than the width (or is it height since the card is sideways??) of the team nameplates, so I have no problem concluding it is a rookies card up there...whether ultimately blue, violet/purple, or something else.

[Bigdaddy]

I'm suggesting that instead of referring to the checklist as W. Sox or White Sox, that we refer to it as Cards or Cardinals.

Interesting to note that both the White Sox and Cardinals finished with the same W/L record in 1966 - 83/79.

Ok, something to add to the thread - if you look at the number 518 above closely, you can see that the right (bottom) side of the nameplate has a slight blue tint while the left side (top) has a more red tint. This could correspond to a slight shift of the red ink (we've seen that before) to the left (top) of the card. And given the strong shift of red in the #517 checklist, you could see where that purple nameplate would appear light blue.

Am I crazy? NVM, don't answer that.

[Kevvyg1026]

If the colors used were additive (i.e., RGB) then we get Magenta. If subtractive (CMYK), then blue-violet.

RGB.JPG

[Kevvyg1026]

So, perhaps it might be A's team? # 492?

[JollyElm]

We know the red was misaligned, and we know the visible part of the strip is blue, but we don't know if the red was supposed to be combined with the blue, so there is no definitive answer found here.

[JollyElm]

This is cobbled together, so it's not perfectly accurate, but I made sure the cards were the same width, and like I said earlier, the team's nameplate just doesn't match the size of the blue sliver. It's gotta be a rookies card...

517492comparison.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

Perhaps 498, Pirates rookies? Red & light blue can combine for magenta (RGB)

[Kevvyg1026]

Here's why I believe 525 is in the row C (Hoerner) below 561 (which is in Perranowski row).

1966_561_Bell.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

Found this miscut on #586 today. Any ideas which card might be below it?


1966_586_Bottom.JPG

1966_586_bottom_back.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

Also found this. Any suggestions as to what card might be at left? The cards that are still not placed are: 528, 532 (but this has 552 on its right), 538, 541, 552, 556, 566, 569 (but I suspect it can't be this card), 570, 576, 586, 590.

1966_517_MC.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

I was wondering if this might be above Tigers team, #583??

[Kevvyg1026]

I am referring to the Raymond card miscut, #586.

[bb66]

I believe that is the Tigers team below Raymond. I think you are right.Would that put the Tigers team somewhere in the Hoerner row and Raymond in the Perranoski row.Those are both SP cards I believe.

[JollyElm]

This is a quick take, but the Tigers Team call seems to be absolutely correct. As far as I know, the high number series only has two teams, the Twins and Tigers, right? The portion of the black seen in the miscut card has a telltale notch in it, which points squarely to Motown, as the Twins team (or more specifically, the versions I've looked at) has no such anomaly there...

tigersvstwinsbacks.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

If we accept that Larry Jackson (#595) is not a SP, then miscuts support 595 and 523 being in the Taylor row in Columns 6 & 7. Then, since we have a miscut of Perry (598) being above Jackson and miscuts of Tigers team (583) and McFarlane (569) being next to Perry, that would put the strip 598, 583, & 569 in Columns 6, 7, & 8 of the Hoerner row. That then places Raymond (586) in column 7 of the Perranowski row.

[Kevvyg1026]

The miscut to the checklist left cannot be 586 (now above 583) or 532 (left of 552).

I am also surprised that the cards above and/or below the checklist haven't been identified as it would seem that a miscut would clearly show the complete yellow (front) or the carmine (?) back. And since the checklist is in column 11, most of the possibilities of the top/bottom card above it are rookie cards.

[Kevvyg1026]

We also know that 576 (Nicholson) is above either a manager card or a RC and that 532/552 are next to each other based on miscuts.

MC_48_A_nicholson.jpg

MC_12.jpg

[BillP]

Great find on the 586. I recently won on ebay some miscuts that involve 590,566 and snyder other. They look like the seller had these from the beginning or acquired them together. They are slightly diamond cuts and the border look like they fit together. more to come

[BillP]

My feeling on this latest purchase is that skowron 590 is to the right of cuellar 566. The right border of the skowron card is very slightly on the left border of the cuellar card.
I reference ebay auctions that ended 9/5 at around 1020pm est. Seller Greg Morris. check out these completed listings and see what you think.

billp

[Kevvyg1026]

I would love to see the scans of the cards.

[BillP]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Also found this. Any suggestions as to what card might be at left? The cards that are still not placed are: 528, 532 (but this has 552 on its right), 538, 541, 552, 556, 566, 569 (but I suspect it can't be this card), 570, 576, 586, 590.

Attachment 417788

I'm going with 538 to the left of the checklist based on the color and the top right corner boarder.

[BillP]

542 smith with 595 to the right on ebay now in a group lot. For a while this was up in the air but verified now. Still looking for more clues on the remaining unknowns.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by BillP

542 smith with 595 to the right on ebay now in a group lot. For a while this was up in the air but verified now. Still looking for more clues on the remaining unknowns.

What specifically is going on? LMK and I'll add them to the overall graphic.

[bb66]

I believe BillP is putting 595 Larry Jackson next to 542 George Smith card in the Tony Taylor row.So Smith is in the 5th column and Jackson the 6th .Great job BillP confirming that. I saw Kevvyg1026 had suspected that in #263 and maybe others thought so,too.

[Cliff Bowman]

It must be this card, #595 Larry Jackson to the right.

[JollyElm]

I took this from my post #287, where it had the Jackson card placed already, but it was 'only' theoretical...



Is the rest of it correct, or does it contain cards that haven't been confirmed yet?

[BillP]

I really believe Skowron, Cuellar and Snyder in that order are together. They came up for auction about 2 months ago. All showing borders of one side. I won the skowron and the snyder, but the cuellar was the key to fit them altogther. could believe somebody outbid me.
Still think those 3 are in order somewhere here. There all reasonably tough.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by BillP

I really believe Skowron, Cuellar and Snyder in that order are together. They came up for auction about 2 months ago. All showing borders of one side. I won the skowron and the snyder, but the cuellar was the key to fit them altogther. could believe somebody outbid me.
Still think those 3 are in order somewhere here. There all reasonably tough.

Those three cards may very well had been cut from the same exact sheet and a kid pulled all three from the same pack back in 1966, but the Snyder is confirmed to be the second card on the Perranoski row between Perranoski and R. Pena.

[BillP]

Ah, right. I try to look at some of these lots as from the original buyer from packs bought at the same time. Makes sense that the sheet itself would produce similar cuts but not necessarily indicate position on the sheet.
Trying to solve card 517 as well. Most agree that it's on the right side and we know it's an SP. Best I can get right now is the colored line on the right. Nothing on the left to indicate next card over.

I thought work had been done earlier to show that Tigers team was below one of the cards that hadn't been placed? By looking at the back of the card for clues.

[BillP]

Post #313 and #318 seem to validate that 586 raymond is above Tigers team. Guys, please weigh in.

billp

[Kevvyg1026]

This is what I believe the two half-slits looked like for the 1966 Topps series 7 print run. I have placed the Raymond card above the Tigers team but don't have enough info for the Skowron, Cueller, checklist, as well as a few others (e.g., Queen). We know that 532 and 552 are next to each other, and that 517 (W. Sox variation) is at the end of a row. We also know that 576 is above a Mgr or Rookie card.

1966_High_sheet_L.jpg

1966_High_sheet_R.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

I wonder if every card on the right side vertical row other than the checklist turns out to be a two player rookies card, every one of them is so far and there are three not known yet and one of them is the checklist.

[Kevvyg1026]

The missing cards from my speculative layout are: 517, 528, 532, 538, 541, 552, 556, 566, 570, 576, & 590. None of the missing cards appear to be Rookie cards.

Of the seven unique rows, all 11 cards are known in four of them (headed by Northrup, Taylor, Salmon, and Mantilla). There are three unknown cards in the Jackson row, five cards in the Perranowski row, and 3 cards in the Hoerner row.

I tend to believe, without supporting evidence though, that 532/552 combo and 517 are in the row headed by Perranowski and that 576 is the last card in the Hoerner row.

I also suspect that 541 (Oliver) is not in column 11, based on a tiny sliver of a miscut I've seen and the same goes for for 590 (Skowron).

I've seen 570 with a faded black line near the top of the card, but I don't know if that is a recurring defect or simply a scan artifact.

I've seen Cuellar (566) with a shift (yellow was evident), which is comparable to the same type of shift I've seen on 598 (Perry), so perhaps 566 is in the Hoerner row, along with Perry.

And Queen (556) is sometimes found with an unusually wide right border, suggesting that it might be at the right edge, perhaps in the Jackson row.

However, I caution that the above card placements are speculations only, as I have not located definitive miscuts.

[Kevvyg1026]

Card 586 is above Tigers team, 583. The speculation appears to be confirmed with that miscut of 542 now available.

[Kevvyg1026]

Snyder is in column 2 so it must be a different card you are thinking about.

[BillP]

Seems like the only 2 cards in play below Nicholson 576 can either be 549 or 552. Does that back black bar on either of those cards highlight anything that could place 576?

[Kevvyg1026]

I agree with that 576 should be above 552 or 549. If 576 is above 549, then 576 is at the end of the Hoerner row. If 576 is above 552, then it could be in several places, including possibilities in each of the three rows.

And the card to the left of the checklist appears to exhibit some blue sky (see post # 314), so that could be 528, 538, 541, 552, 556, 566, 570, 576, or 590 as possibly in column 10 rows B (Perranowski), C (Hoerner) or G (Jackson).

Can you post the miscuts where you think Skowron, Cueller, and another card are in a strip of 3?

[BillP]

Still looking for that thread on ebay, however I thought I would bring up another tidbit. Card 559 Pena appears with and without a blue dot in the bottom right corner. Probably a difference in the 2 sheets.

[bb66]

Bill good point about the 559 Pena blue dot. I have one with and two without it. I will look for that in the future. Thanks

[Kevvyg1026]

There are currently 11 cards (517, 528, 532, 538, 541, 552, 556, 566, 570, 576, and 590) whose placements in the 1966 high series sheet are unknown. What is known is that 517 is in C11, that 532 is adjacent to 552, and that 576 (Nicholson) is above either a mgr or RC.

This miscut of card #556 shows that it is above a regular card, not a RC or Mgr. Sorry about poor quality, but it was the only one I found on Worthpoint. Since, Column 11 has 574, 549, 553, 539, (all RCs) and 517 (checklist) in it, it is unlikely, but not impossible for Queen (556) to be in C11.

1966_556_B.JPG

[Kevvyg1026]

1. I haven't seen other 1966 highs with the blue dot. Are there any?

2. I have seen severe diamond cuts on 590, 566, 556, & 586 but not the Snyder.

3. I have seen multiple copies of #598 (perry) with varying degrees of white clouds on it, but haven't seen other cards with those artifacts.

4. The checklist (517) has a card on its left that has a large amount of blue sky.

[BillP]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

There are currently 11 cards (517, 528, 532, 538, 541, 552, 556, 566, 570, 576, and 590) whose placements in the 1966 high series sheet are unknown. What is known is that 517 is in C11, that 532 is adjacent to 552, and that 576 (Nicholson) is above either a mgr or RC.

This miscut of card #556 shows that it is above a regular card, not a RC or Mgr. Sorry about poor quality, but it was the only one I found on Worthpoint. Since, Column 11 has 574, 549, 553, 539, (all RCs) and 517 (checklist) in it, it is unlikely, but not impossible for Queen (556) to be in C11.

Attachment 425303

Could queen be above a non RC on slit B? Depending on the row arrangement on that sheet? I'm going with an assumption that Queen is in the 591 row.

[JollyElm]

Here's the latest layout...

[Kevvyg1026]

Thank you for updating. This layout is the first 8 rows of one half-slit. Here is a summary of things for this series.

As can be seen, the pattern observed is A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G where A is the row headed by Northrup, B is headed by Perranowski, C is headed by Cards Rookies, D by Taylor, E by Salmon, F by Mantilla, & G by the Jackson/Shirley.

The complete pattern is A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E for this half-slit. The other half-slit looks like: D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E, A, F, G.

So the SP rows are B, C, F, G. Counts of eBay sales over a lengthy period for cards from this series support this conclusion.

There are still 11 cards to be placed in this array, but we know that they are all from SP rows. These cards are 517, 528, 532, 538, 541, 552, 556, 566, 570, 576, & 590.

We know that 517 (Checklist) is in C11 and that it is adjacent to a card with lots of blue sky. However, we don't know whether it is in row B, C, or G.

I have seen a MC of 541 (Oliver) that indicates it is not in column 11 but there wasn't enough info to tell what the adjacent card was. Same goes for Skowron (590).

There is a MC of 556 (Queen) that shows it is above a regular player card, which means that it is unlikely to be in C11, but that can't be completely ruled out.

Nicholson (576) is above either a RC or a Mgr card. This means that 576 is above 552 or 549. If 576 is above 549, then 576 is at the end of the Hoerner row. If 576 is above 552, then it could be in several places, including possibilities in each of the three rows.

Cards 532 & 552 are adjacent to each other but this isn't enough to determine their placement.

Finally, severe diamond-shaped MCs have been observed for 556, 566, 586, & 590 but I do not know if that means they were all in the same row. Another post suggested that 566/590 were adjacent to each other but I have not seen MCs to support that yet.

[BillP]

I think the 566/590 miscuts were in the same wax pack or box from a miscut sheet. Don't have enough to go on to move opinion to where they might be together.
I'm still looking around. Mainly at the checklist,

[BillP]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Thank you for updating. This layout is the first 8 rows of one half-slit. Here is a summary of things for this series.

As can be seen, the pattern observed is A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G where A is the row headed by Northrup, B is headed by Perranowski, C is headed by Cards Rookies, D by Taylor, E by Salmon, F by Mantilla, & G by the Jackson/Shirley.

The complete pattern is A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E for this half-slit. The other half-slit looks like: D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E, A, F, G.

So the SP rows are B, C, F, G. Counts of eBay sales over a lengthy period for cards from this series support this conclusion.

There are still 11 cards to be placed in this array, but we know that they are all from SP rows. These cards are 517, 528, 532, 538, 541, 552, 556, 566, 570, 576, & 590.

We know that 517 (Checklist) is in C11 and that it is adjacent to a card with lots of blue sky. However, we don't know whether it is in row B, C, or G.

I have seen a MC of 541 (Oliver) that indicates it is not in column 11 but there wasn't enough info to tell what the adjacent card was. Same goes for Skowron (590).

There is a MC of 556 (Queen) that shows it is above a regular player card, which means that it is unlikely to be in C11, but that can't be completely ruled out.

Nicholson (576) is above either a RC or a Mgr card. This means that 576 is above 552 or 549. If 576 is above 549, then 576 is at the end of the Hoerner row. If 576 is above 552, then it could be in several places, including possibilities in each of the three rows.

Cards 532 & 552 are adjacent to each other but this isn't enough to determine their placement.

Finally, severe diamond-shaped MCs have been observed for 556, 566, 586, & 590 but I do not know if that means they were all in the same row. Another post suggested that 566/590 were adjacent to each other but I have not seen MCs to support that yet.

A 576 nicholson that has a partial left border on ebay now. Diamond cut. The bottom has a border of a regular card and the bottom looks like the bar of a dark colored team banner. The team banner is smaller than the regular border so I'm going to look at that prospect for placement clues.