1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Ted,
I thought there was some debate as to the exact release date of the 48/49 Leaf product. Not arguing your point, there may be evidence it was never released in 1948. The larger point I was making is that the white bordered portrait w/ facsimile autograph was released a year or more before the Leaf card, which would probably be closer to a year and half if Leaf cards weren’t released until 1949.

Dan

There is NO debate amongst veteran hobbyist regarding the 1949 LEAF BB set's issue date.

There is evidence that the 1949 LEAF BB cards were NEVER issued in 1948. Before I present it, here....I collected these LEAF cards in my youth.
I clearly recall that they were first available in early Spring of 1949 (coincident with the start of the BB season). Old-timers in this hobby (who
also collected these cards in their youth) totally agree that these LEAF cards were not available in 1948. We were still collecting LEAF FB and
Boxing cards in 1948.
Here is the evidence printed in the bio of the Lou Boudreau card......

.


Lou Boudreau's MVP Award was announced in mid December of 1948.


Here is an uncut sheet of the 1st Series cards issued in early Spring of 1949.




Furthermore, check-out my 8-page story on the 1949 LEAF set in the OLD CARBOARD Magazine (Issue #9). You'll find it very informative
and very interesting.....http://oldcardboard.com/misc/issue09/issue09.asp.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Just to show you guys how absolutely IGNORANT both PSA and SGC are regarding the 1949 LEAF set, take a close look at the date on the flips of these graded
1949 LEAF HOFer Premiums. WOW ! they are identified as.....1949 ! !
Ten HOFer Premiums were available at our corner candy stores. Each 24-count waxpack box contained one Premium inside the bottom of the box. Sometimes, a
generous store manager would reward a kid with a HOFer Premium, when that kid purchased the very last waxpack (or waxpacks) in a given box.
Kids would usually acquire a Premium by giving the store manager ten LEAF wrappers and requesting a certain HOFer.

Obviously, both PSA and SGC absolutely contradict themselves by having these Premiums dated 1949, but have the LEAF BB cards dated 1948. And, there is no
hope that PSA, nor SGC, will ever correct the date on their graded LEAF cards to reflect the true date of 1949.


Here are 2 of my HOFer Premiums.....Babe Ruth and the Lou Gehrig.



.


HOFer Premiums Checklist

Babe Ruth (light background, no text)
Babe Ruth (blue background, no text)
Babe Ruth (dark background, text)
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Mickey Cochrane
Lou Gehrig
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
John McGraw
Ed Walsh



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[GasHouseGang]

That's good information Ted. I always assumed that the kids had to send away for those premiums. I didn't realize they were actually in the box with the cards.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

That's good information Ted. I always assumed that the kids had to send away for those premiums. I didn't realize they were actually in the box with the cards.

David M (GasHouseGang)

The LEAF album and the Pennants were obtained by mailing in LEAF wrappers.

Read all about it in my 8-page story on the 1949 LEAF set in the OLD CARBOARD Magazine (Issue #9).
You will find it very informative and very interesting.....http://oldcardboard.com/misc/issue09/issue09.asp.


Here is my other Babe Ruth Premium. I'm still looking for the blue background version (it is a tough one).




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[GeoPoto]

I apologize in advance for asking a question that might be addressed somewhere in prior discussions, but could Ted Z. (or anybody else) confirm that there are 2 different Jackie Robinson Portrait Facsimile Signature Bond Bread cards:
(1) a Bond Bread JR card (Portrait Facsimile Signature) with rounded corners like the others in the Bond Bread set; and
(2) a Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set Portrait Facsimile Signature card with white borders and square corners like the other cards in the Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set.

And that the former (1) was issued earliest (as part of the Bond Bread Set) and the latter (2) was subsequently issued as the first card in the Bond Bread Jackie Robinson Set.

Do I have it right? Thanks for any response.

[Pat R]

I don't understand why people keep blaming the grading companies for having the year wrong on the Leaf cards.
They were referred to as 1948 Leaf long before the grading companies existed.

PSA won't grade any card that isn't cataloged and they refer to the catalogs
for the year of issue. What are they supposed to do with the thousands that
are already graded as 1948?

: What types of cards and tickets does PSA authenticate/grade?
A: PSA will grade most items that are cataloged in major publications including, but not limited to, the Sports Market Report (SMR) and the Standard Catalog by Krause. PSA also grades major sporting event tickets such as those from the MLB regular season, All-Star games, Playoffs, World Series, NFL regular season, Super Bowl, NBA regular season, NCAA Finals, etc. Since entertainment tickets are serviced on a case-by-case basis, please contact Customer Service to confirm if we can grade the item you wish to submit. We will not grade high school tickets, audit or gate stubs, fan tickets issued after the event, or Ticketmaster-issued sporting event tickets.
Back to list

Some of the standard catalogs still list them as 1948 in their index this
is the 2016 edition

DSCN2624.jpg

DSCN2626.jpg

[tedzan]

Jim Beckett contacted me in 1997 regarding the 1949 LEAF set. Jim started identifying this set as a 1949 issue in
his 1998 BECKETT Baseball Card Price Guide,.
Prior to 1998, Beckett listed this set as a 1948/1949 issue.

The STANDARD CATALOG of VINTAGE BASEBALL CARDS (by Bob Lemke) identifies the 1949 LEAF as a 1949 issue.


I don't understand what your problem is ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I don't understand why people keep blaming the grading companies for having the year wrong on the Leaf cards.
They were referred to as 1948 Leaf long before the grading companies existed.

The SCD catalog was edited by Bob Lemke until he passed away in 2017. Lemke was no stranger to net54baseball and even praised the work of many here.





It cannot be said he didn't know about Ted's 2009 research into the Leaf cards. Lemke's blog often talked about Jackie Robinson cards, but he carefully avoided discussing anything about whether the Leaf set was issued in 1948 or 1949. The catalog he edited for years initially called it a 1948-49 set.

To see just how far SCD is concerned about Jackie Robinson and the Bond Bread issue, see its August 2, 2020 post at https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ines-1947-set/

Catalogs often contain mistakes which they should correct, but often merely repeat the same wrong information they had been publishing in prior editions. They might modify prices in a listing, but often that is merely a simple percentage of increase or decrease to the value of common cards. They don't want to go the expense of making corrections. Most catalogs have a disclaimer that it's merely a guide and they do not guarantee the accuracy.

But you a correct, erroneous catalog information does significantly hurt the hobby.

On the other hand, grading card services claim to authenticate cards. Many obscure cards they identify aren't even in a catalog. There is a difference between catalogues that let you know they may contain inaccuracies and companies that claim to be experts.

The pictures of the SCD catalogues above were previously posted in another net54baseball thread in January 2017 as part of a tribute to Bob Lemke when he passed on.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

There is NO debate amongst veteran hobbyist regarding the 1949 LEAF BB set's issue date.

Ted is absolutely correct.

I believe that those who continue to foist the misidentification of cards upon the unsuspecting have no interest in being honest, especially when it affects their pocketbooks.

Card grading services know they generate a significant portion of their revenue from identifying cards people believe are "rookie" cards. Many dealers take advantage of this, especially with higher priced cards, because they can say its a genuine card authenticated by such-and-such grading company.

Over a month ago, I contacted PSA about helping them resolve the issues of incorrectly attributing cards as "Bond Bread" ones.

I even proposed simple solutions to make correct attributions that did not require them to recall their slabs with wrong identifications.

Simply put, first start identifying the cards correctly.

They already have population reports, price guides, set registry reports and a myriad of other information on their website about these misidentified cards.

They can change the title of those sections to the correct identification AND include a note in each of the corrected sections saying something like, "Information we have obtained tells us that those cards previous labeled as "Bond Bread ****" should be correctly attributed as a card belonging to this set. They are not "Bond Bread *****' cards."

The links that were titled with the old "Bond Bread ***** information should not be renamed, but when clicked should jump to the webpage with the correct identification. Of course, just like any other listing, new links with the correct name will have to be included where appropriate.

I even suggested ways to relabel the old slabs if the owner wanted them relabeled.

That may not remove many of the misidentified cards from the market place, but it's a start. Hopefully, the new information on the website will give some concern to those who may want to pass off the misidentified cards.

At least new slabs misidentifying cards as "Bond Bread" will no longer appear.

Mike

P.S. Can you guess what was PSA's response?

Copyright 2020, b Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521