Slightly OT: Could the Braves and Indians be next?

[ElCabron]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

You are the coward for calling out one person because you disagree with him but condoning someone else doing the same exact thing because you agree with him.

I thought I said “they should all have to put their names behind their words” but I’ll send you a message with my phone number and we can discuss who is a coward, Cliff Bowman.

[ElCabron]

That’s my real number in the message I sent, Cliff. Will you be calling?

[G1911]

As I am not criticizing any person, company, etc. I thought I was following the rules. As I understand it, one is allowed to have an opinion different from yourself. I'm not even criticizing Packs, I just disagree. As I understand the rules, you can't remain private as you are accusing me of "cowardly crap", etc., but I am allowed to have an opinion contrary to yours.

If I am breaking the rules I apologize and will delete, but then other folks are not allowed to do it either, who do not seem to be so aggressively 'called out'.

I don't see why you feel a need to dox me or argue on the phone? I tend to think of these matters as being about ideas, not about ad hominems and personal attacks (which is why I'm not making them). Perhaps I have a minority view here too.

The reason I prefer to stay private, though none of your business really, is, largely, that we are all posting about valuable collectibles here, it can be read by anyone, and it is very easy to ID members home addresses with their full names.

EDIT: There, they've been removed just for you. That you want to start an altercation over the phone with Cliff, a gentleman I don't know besides our very public chats on some Topps variations and his discovery of 66 Topps high number miscuts as a group sheet-recreation project (thank you for sharing, sir!), about what a "coward" and "garbage" I am because I have an opinion different from yours, is another excellent reason that I don't want you to have my personally identifying information to track me down. This is ridiculous.

[ElCabron]

It’s up to Leon. Normally people too cowardly to put their name behind their words aren’t allowed to post on anything that’s the least bit controversial, but maybe things have changed. No one wants to know your address or whatever else you’re afraid of. But if you’re too afraid to put your name out there because of your amazing collection that is better than all of the other people on this board who post their names, then maybe you should STFU?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

It’s up to Leon. Normally people too cowardly to put their name behind their words aren’t allowed to post on anything that’s the least bit controversial, but maybe things have changed. No one wants to know your address or whatever else you’re afraid of. But if you’re too afraid to put your name out there because of your amazing collection that is better than all of the other people on this board who post their names, then maybe you should STFU?

I'm pretty sure insults like this are also against the rules. I expect this to be enforced with the other posters who agree with you but have committed the same sin. Your hostility, insults, anger and inability to speak in a civil manner over somebody not having your opinion is not "grown up".

[williamcohon]

I think the names need to be changed. Some of the previous posts talked about not seeing racism. Others made the point that any transgressions happened long ago. It dawns on me that that’s probably true. Many states drove all their tribes out a long time ago. Only Indian names remain as a reminder of the sad history. In such circumstances, it would be easy to feel a disconnect, and be impatient with those who want to stir things up by changing team names.

Here where I live, a little north of Seattle, in Washington State, there are numerous reservations. I see Native Americans every day. The tribes hold written agreements and treaties that our federal government has failed to honor. The grievances are not tales from long ago. They are current, and they are raw. Reducing people to a cultural stereotype, and using that stereotype as a team mascot, is demeaning.

Don’t think so? Well how would it be if the name were changed to the Washington Honkies?

As for the Indians and the Braves, yes - they’re next. I suggest the Cleveland Engines. The name hardly changes, yet offends no one.

And the Atlanta Breves also hardly changes anything, but avoids insult. If you visit Starbucks, you probably know that a Breve is a drink with half-and-half. And all you musicians know that a breve is a note that lasts eight beats.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by williamcohon

I think the names need to be changed. Some of the previous posts talked about not seeing racism. Others made the point that any transgressions happened long ago. It dawns on me that that’s probably true. Many states drove all their tribes out a long time ago. Only Indian names remain as a reminder of the sad history. In such circumstances, it would be easy to feel a disconnect, and be impatient with those who want to stir things up by changing team names.

Here where I live, a little north of Seattle, in Washington State, there are numerous reservations. I see Native Americans every day. The tribes hold written agreements and treaties that our federal government has failed to honor. The grievances are not tales from long ago. They are current, and they are raw. Reducing people to a cultural stereotype, and using that stereotype as a team mascot, is demeaning.

Not only are the grievances from "not tales from long ago", they are current. The Supreme Court just rules *last week* that half of the state of Oklahoma is now considered reservation because the federal government failed to honor their treaties.

Last. Week.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by williamcohon

I think the names need to be changed. Some of the previous posts talked about not seeing racism. Others made the point that any transgressions happened long ago. It dawns on me that that’s probably true. Many states drove all their tribes out a long time ago. Only Indian names remain as a reminder of the sad history. In such circumstances, it would be easy to feel a disconnect, and be impatient with those who want to stir things up by changing team names.



Here where I live, a little north of Seattle, in Washington State, there are numerous reservations. I see Native Americans every day. The tribes hold written agreements and treaties that our federal government has failed to honor. The grievances are not tales from long ago. They are current, and they are raw. Reducing people to a cultural stereotype, and using that stereotype as a team mascot, is demeaning.

+1

Lived in Spokane, WA. The local MiLB team, the Indians, work very closely with the local tribe. Jerseys sometimes include the team name written in their dialect, or salmon - an important symbol for local natives. They are a really good example of how to handle culturally sensitive topics with respect, and showing dignity to a group that has often been marginalized.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

That’s my real number in the message I sent, Cliff. Will you be calling?

Oh yeah, I am going to call a stark raving mad lunatic self loathing indoctrinated L word and have you scream incoherently at me with obscenities. Ain’t gonna happen.

[Leon]

I hadn't really been interested in this thread until I read it last night. I thien locked it and then reopened it. I don't want this place to be sterile. I prefer not to get involved in anything . The rule at the top is still the rule. But in this world everything isn't black and white. Still if you are calling someone names then your name is going to be out here. But just disagreeing..meh....

What we need, imo, is half of all social program money go to mandatory parenting classes for whomever gets any govt. handouts they didn't work for.

For the record I don't think any names of anything should be changed. And I don't think any monuments should have come down. Just one, well thought out, point of view.

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