1966 Topps High's - Any uncut sheets or partial sheets known?

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by BillP

Guys, I'm a bit behind on the half sheet part of the discussion. Supposedly there is a 132 card sheet of which I've been working on the 1st card in the row sequence and come up with 11 of those rows ( I believe), not sure on the 12th. Why again does there have to be another sheet or half sheet?

Topps printed two half sheets for each sheet in each series from 1952 until god knows when, Slit A and Slit B, even if the half sheets matched. Most standard size cards were done this way, including other sports and some if not all Non-Sports. 100 card slit from 1952-54, 110 from 1955-56 then 132 from 1957 on. After series-by-series distribution ended in 1973-74, the * and ** sheets still indicate there are two half sheets per "setup".

[BillP]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Topps printed two half sheets for each sheet in each series from 1952 until god knows when, Slit A and Slit B, even if the half sheets matched. Most standard size cards were done this way, including other sports and some if not all Non-Sports. 100 card slit from 1952-54, 110 from 1955-56 then 132 from 1957 on. After series-by-series distribution ended in 1973-74, the * and ** sheets still indicate there are two half sheets per "setup".

thx, so each sheet is 6 rows by 11 columns. Interesting. No I have to revisit the miscuts to see who is on top of who for the half sheet sequencing.

[Kevvyg1026]

No. Each half sheet has 12 rows x 11 columns 132 cards on each half sheet. 264 total

[JollyElm]

Does anyone happen to have individual scans (with uniform size/dpi/etc.) of every card from the high series??

If so, I can create an editable document which emulates the set-up of the two 132 card sheets, and each card can be plugged into its proper spot(s) to recreate what the actual sheets looked like. This will make it easy to switch cards around as further knowledge of the layout (or theories regarding it) develops. Think of it as a highly effective visual tool which cuts through all the number juggling.

Edited to add: I'm just downloading the card scans one by one from COMC, so that solves that. So, what I need to move forward is a specific list of what cards to put where across the two separate sheets. If someone can provide me with a row by row breakdown (if a card is unknown, put a capital X in that spot), I can get on this as I await the fireworks.

[JollyElm]

Here's my first run at it. I took jmoran19's images from post #21 and put this pic (of a section of an uncut sheet) together as a quick example of what this new resource can do...

Layout01.jpg

[BillP]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Here's my first run at it. I took jmoran19's images from post #21 and put this pic (of a section of an uncut sheet) together as a quick example of what this new resource can do...

Attachment 408077

Great work on this txn!

[Kevvyg1026]

Can you put 561 next to Chance (564), and then 525 under 561 (i.e., next to 546), and 542 next to 571 (and above 550)?

[JollyElm]

Okay, I'm ready to update, but am a bit confused. These two graphics seem to be the most up-to-date (accurate?) layouts I have so far, with some notable differences in row placements (check out who lies beneath Northrup)...

Layout2.jpg

Layout4.jpg

So, what should definitely be added and where? And more importantly, is it 'proven' by the miscuts?

If Smith (#542) should appear above McCovey, do we have a connection to the Dave Roberts (#571) card that would abut it...or could it possibly be a different row appearing above Willie, that is NOT the Tony Taylor row?

[Kevvyg1026]

Although we do know which rows many cards are in, we do not know the specific row pattern used for the 1966 high number series. For ease of discussion, let me use the following notation: there are seven unique rows which I will label A through G.

Row A, headed by Northrup, is completely known and has cards (in order from L to R) 554, 568, 584, 581, 534, 558, 573, 536, 529, 572, 574

Row B, headed by Perranowski, has cards (L to R) 555, 562, 559, 564, 561 plus six more, as yet unknown.

Row C, headed by Hoerner rookie, has cards (L to R) 544, 565, 547, 546, 525, plus 6 more as yet unknown.

Row D, headed by Taylor, has cards (L to R) 585, 530, 560, 571, 542 plus 6 more as yet unknown.

Row E, headed by Salmon, has cards (L to R) 594, 535, 575, 580, 550, 538, 579, 537, plus 3 more as yet unknown.

Row F, headed by Mantilla, is completely known, and has cards (L to R) 557, 588, 545, 526, 589, 593, 563, 578, 548, 524, 539

Row G, headed by Shirley/Jackson rookie, has cards (L to R) 591, 540, 567, 527, 577, 596, 551, 543, plus 3 more as yet unknown.

We know that at some point within the two half sheets:
1. rows A, B, C, D, and E are in that order.
2. rows A, F, and G are in that order
3. row E is above row A at some point
4. cards 597, 592, and 549 are in the same row
5. card 533 is in column 6 and must be in either row B, C, or D and whichever row that card is located, must be above A at some point
6. card 583 is in same row (to the left of) 569, and is above the row containing card 523.
7. card 598 appears to be above card 595 and 552 is in same row as 532 (532 is left of 552)
8. card 517 is most likely at the end of a row.
9. row G is above either row B or D at some point (based on miscut 591. can't tell if color is grayish or faded red).


My guess, and it is only a guess, is that one half-sheet contains the pattern: A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E. This pattern handles items 1-3 above, plus 9 (if G is above B as I suspect). It is also the same pattern Topps used for one half-sheet in 1965 (both series 5 & 7), as well as 1967 (series 7) and 1969 (series 6).

The second half-sheet pattern must somehow incorporate 533 (meaning that row has to touch row A somewhere). Hope this helps.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Although we do know which rows many cards are in, we do not know the specific row pattern used for the 1966 high number series. For ease of discussion, let me use the following notation: there are seven unique rows which I will label A through G.

Row A, headed by Northrup, is completely known and has cards (in order from L to R) 554, 568, 584, 581, 534, 558, 573, 536, 529, 572, 574

Row B, headed by Perranowski, has cards (L to R) 555, 562, 559, 564, 561 plus six more, as yet unknown.

Row C, headed by Hoerner rookie, has cards (L to R) 544, 565, 547, 546, 525, plus 6 more as yet unknown.

Row D, headed by Taylor, has cards (L to R) 585, 530, 560, 571, 542 plus 6 more as yet unknown.

Row E, headed by Salmon, has cards (L to R) 594, 535, 575, 580, 550, 538, 579, 537, plus 3 more as yet unknown.

Row F, headed by Mantilla, is completely known, and has cards (L to R) 557, 588, 545, 526, 589, 593, 563, 578, 548, 524, 539

Row G, headed by Shirley/Jackson rookie, has cards (L to R) 591, 540, 567, 527, 577, 596, 551, 543, plus 3 more as yet unknown.

We know that at some point within the two half sheets:
1. rows A, B, C, D, and E are in that order.
2. rows A, F, and G are in that order
3. row E is above row A at some point
4. cards 597, 592, and 549 are in the same row
5. card 533 is in column 6 and must be in either row B, C, or D and whichever row that card is located, must be above A at some point
6. card 583 is in same row (to the left of) 569, and is above the row containing card 523.
7. card 598 appears to be above card 595 and 552 is in same row as 532 (532 is left of 552)
8. card 517 is most likely at the end of a row.
9. row G is above either row B or D at some point (based on miscut 591. can't tell if color is grayish or faded red).


My guess, and it is only a guess, is that one half-sheet contains the pattern: A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E. This pattern handles items 1-3 above, plus 9 (if G is above B as I suspect). It is also the same pattern Topps used for one half-sheet in 1965 (both series 5 & 7), as well as 1967 (series 7) and 1969 (series 6).

The second half-sheet pattern must somehow incorporate 533 (meaning that row has to touch row A somewhere). Hope this helps.

Does your information so far fit with the hobby's belief of 43 (44 counting the checklist) SPs appearing on the same rows and 33 DPs on the same rows? If so, would this lead to a belief that SPs were printed 3 times on the 2 sheets and DPs 4 times?

[bb66]

That will look great JollyElm. Great visual impact for sure.Thanks

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

Does your information so far fit with the hobby's belief of 43 (44 counting the checklist) SPs appearing on the same rows and 33 DPs on the same rows? If so, would this lead to a belief that SPs were printed 3 times on the 2 sheets and DPs 4 times?

What we have seen from the partial sheets and misfits does not really indicate 44 SP’a, and some of the specific alleged “SP’s” have been pretty clearly debunked, like McCovey and Williams. I would guess there are two slightly SP’d rows on a full sheet, but we can’t definitively prove any total number yet.

[stlcardsfan]

I was looking at that Howser yesterday on EBay. (As an aside, I tried and failed miserably to post it here. I need to watch you guys for 5 minutes to see how you do it so easily. But I digress). Anyway, It is really hard to tell what is going on with that Howser, but it almost looks like it could be the 575 Jackson below it. Which we determined is definitely under the Perry card. Maybe a different half sheet?