1966 Topps High's - Any uncut sheets or partial sheets known?

G1911 · #1 07-02-2020, 04:24 PM

Oh so very close....

BillP · #2 07-03-2020, 12:27 PM

Guys, I'm a bit behind on the half sheet part of the discussion. Supposedly there is a 132 card sheet of which I've been working on the 1st card in the row sequence and come up with 11 of those rows ( I believe), not sure on the 12th. Why again does there have to be another sheet or half sheet?

toppcat · #3 07-03-2020, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillP

Guys, I'm a bit behind on the half sheet part of the discussion. Supposedly there is a 132 card sheet of which I've been working on the 1st card in the row sequence and come up with 11 of those rows ( I believe), not sure on the 12th. Why again does there have to be another sheet or half sheet?

Topps printed two half sheets for each sheet in each series from 1952 until god knows when, Slit A and Slit B, even if the half sheets matched. Most standard size cards were done this way, including other sports and some if not all Non-Sports. 100 card slit from 1952-54, 110 from 1955-56 then 132 from 1957 on. After series-by-series distribution ended in 1973-74, the * and ** sheets still indicate there are two half sheets per "setup".

BillP · #4 07-03-2020, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toppcat

Topps printed two half sheets for each sheet in each series from 1952 until god knows when, Slit A and Slit B, even if the half sheets matched. Most standard size cards were done this way, including other sports and some if not all Non-Sports. 100 card slit from 1952-54, 110 from 1955-56 then 132 from 1957 on. After series-by-series distribution ended in 1973-74, the * and ** sheets still indicate there are two half sheets per "setup".

thx, so each sheet is 6 rows by 11 columns. Interesting. No I have to revisit the miscuts to see who is on top of who for the half sheet sequencing.

Kevvyg1026 · #5 07-03-2020, 04:46 PM

No. Each half sheet has 12 rows x 11 columns 132 cards on each half sheet. 264 total

JollyElm · #6 07-03-2020, 05:21 PM

Does anyone happen to have individual scans (with uniform size/dpi/etc.) of every card from the high series??

If so, I can create an editable document which emulates the set-up of the two 132 card sheets, and each card can be plugged into its proper spot(s) to recreate what the actual sheets looked like. This will make it easy to switch cards around as further knowledge of the layout (or theories regarding it) develops. Think of it as a highly effective visual tool which cuts through all the number juggling.

Edited to add: I'm just downloading the card scans one by one from COMC, so that solves that. So, what I need to move forward is a specific list of what cards to put where across the two separate sheets. If someone can provide me with a row by row breakdown (if a card is unknown, put a capital X in that spot), I can get on this as I await the fireworks.

JollyElm · #7 07-04-2020, 04:12 AM

Here's my first run at it. I took jmoran19's images from post #21 and put this pic (of a section of an uncut sheet) together as a quick example of what this new resource can do...

Layout01.jpg

Kevvyg1026 · #8 07-04-2020, 04:15 AM

Although we do know which rows many cards are in, we do not know the specific row pattern used for the 1966 high number series. For ease of discussion, let me use the following notation: there are seven unique rows which I will label A through G.

Row A, headed by Northrup, is completely known and has cards (in order from L to R) 554, 568, 584, 581, 534, 558, 573, 536, 529, 572, 574

Row B, headed by Perranowski, has cards (L to R) 555, 562, 559, 564, 561 plus six more, as yet unknown.

Row C, headed by Hoerner rookie, has cards (L to R) 544, 565, 547, 546, 525, plus 6 more as yet unknown.

Row D, headed by Taylor, has cards (L to R) 585, 530, 560, 571, 542 plus 6 more as yet unknown.

Row E, headed by Salmon, has cards (L to R) 594, 535, 575, 580, 550, 538, 579, 537, plus 3 more as yet unknown.

Row F, headed by Mantilla, is completely known, and has cards (L to R) 557, 588, 545, 526, 589, 593, 563, 578, 548, 524, 539

Row G, headed by Shirley/Jackson rookie, has cards (L to R) 591, 540, 567, 527, 577, 596, 551, 543, plus 3 more as yet unknown.

We know that at some point within the two half sheets:
1. rows A, B, C, D, and E are in that order.
2. rows A, F, and G are in that order
3. row E is above row A at some point
4. cards 597, 592, and 549 are in the same row
5. card 533 is in column 6 and must be in either row B, C, or D and whichever row that card is located, must be above A at some point
6. card 583 is in same row (to the left of) 569, and is above the row containing card 523.
7. card 598 appears to be above card 595 and 552 is in same row as 532 (532 is left of 552)
8. card 517 is most likely at the end of a row.
9. row G is above either row B or D at some point (based on miscut 591. can't tell if color is grayish or faded red).

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that one half-sheet contains the pattern: A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E. This pattern handles items 1-3 above, plus 9 (if G is above B as I suspect). It is also the same pattern Topps used for one half-sheet in 1965 (both series 5 & 7), as well as 1967 (series 7) and 1969 (series 6).

The second half-sheet pattern must somehow incorporate 533 (meaning that row has to touch row A somewhere). Hope this helps.

stlcardsfan · #9 07-03-2020, 12:51 PM

I was looking at that Howser yesterday on EBay. (As an aside, I tried and failed miserably to post it here. I need to watch you guys for 5 minutes to see how you do it so easily. But I digress). Anyway, It is really hard to tell what is going on with that Howser, but it almost looks like it could be the 575 Jackson below it. Which we determined is definitely under the Perry card. Maybe a different half sheet?

G1911 · #10 07-03-2020, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillP

Guys, I'm a bit behind on the half sheet part of the discussion. Supposedly there is a 132 card sheet of which I've been working on the 1st card in the row sequence and come up with 11 of those rows ( I believe), not sure on the 12th. Why again does there have to be another sheet or half sheet?

All the Topps sheets of this era were 264 cards. In the middle of a 264 sheet, there was a white gap; the first thing done after printing was to cut the sheet into two halves for easier handling (at least, I presume this was why, and why most uncut sheets surviving are really half sheets). Each of these half sheets would have 12 rows of 11 cards per row, 132 per half. In some years, we know that the two half sheets that made up one fully printed sheet did not have the same rows in the same places; usually done to balance things out and prevent or limit SP cards, presumably. At this point, I don't think we really have the evidence to say whether both halves were the same or different for 1966, just yet. So, there definitely were 2 half sheets, but it's possible they do directly mirror each other and are the same. More top/bottom miscuts should help us eventually solve this part of the puzzle, if we can keep turning them up.

This has become a great thread gentlemen, thank you all for crowdsourcing this and combining everything together

EDIT: Writing while Toppcat was replying too; what he said!

Kevvyg1026 · #11 07-05-2020, 05:23 AM

Howser is in column 3 and therefore must touch (be above) one of the following:584, 559, 547, 560, 575, or 545

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