Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Speaking of weird screening textures ... came across this while continuing my inventory. There was apparently a brief period - perhaps 1960-61 - when the print had a velvet-like feel to it. I can date these by the picture pennants of the era, I know Phillies, Pirates, and Orioles all have it. Also this simple Phillies pennant below. Additionally, the 3D pennants have it. For whatever reason, it didn’t last long.

Oh ... and those are FANTASTIC Giants pennants ... truly works of art!

[rlevy]

sold for $211, and was wondering if anyone knew anything about it. No picture of the back nor of the tip. I assumed it was something more modern, but then saw the price it sold for. I can''t tell if it is raised felt or screen printed from the picture. I'm always trying to learn about these things. The seller didn't use the word "vintage" to describe it, but did refer to themselves as specialists in vintage items 5 times in their description.

1955 world champs.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-BROOKL...orig_cvip=true

thanks,
Rick

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by rlevy

sold for $211, and was wondering if anyone knew anything about it. No picture of the back nor of the tip. I assumed it was something more modern, but then saw the price it sold for. I can''t tell if it is raised felt or screen printed from the picture. I'm always trying to learn about these things. The seller didn't use the word "vintage" to describe it, but did refer to themselves as specialists in vintage items 5 times in their description.

Attachment 397934

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-BROOKL...orig_cvip=true

thanks,
Rick

I haven't seen that particular one, but I'm 99.9% sure it's modern.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by rlevy

sold for $211, and was wondering if anyone knew anything about it. No picture of the back nor of the tip. I assumed it was something more modern, but then saw the price it sold for. I can''t tell if it is raised felt or screen printed from the picture. I'm always trying to learn about these things. The seller didn't use the word "vintage" to describe it, but did refer to themselves as specialists in vintage items 5 times in their description.

Attachment 397934

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-BROOKL...orig_cvip=true

thanks,
Rick

Obvious reproduction/fake....

For some reason, this one gets pawned off as vintage more often than any other Mitchell & Ness Reproduction. It is new and does not even resemble a vintage pennant. I have had to call respected Auction Houses on 3 separate occasions, about this particular pennant alone. They've all eventually taken it down, but not without a struggle.

The consignor is either just a stubborn fool who can't tell the difference, or one of the most tenacious con men in the hobby.

[bocca001]

Here is the Oakland hat pennant. If anyone has the Giants or A's and would part with it, let me know.

What other teams have this design?

[perezfan]

Click on link below, and pay special attention to the provided description....

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...orld-479760996

[rlevy]

Thanks Guys. I hadn't run across it before. I wonder if the bidders knew what they were bidding on?

Rick

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by rlevy

Thanks Guys. I hadn't run across it before. I wonder if the bidders knew what they were bidding on?

Rick

Cannot speak for all of them... but would definitely say the winning bidder really got flocked.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Cannot speak for all of them... but would definitely say the winning bidder really got flocked.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

cannot speak for all of them... But would definitely say the winning bidder really got flocked.

lol

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Click on link below, and pay special attention to the provided description....

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...orld-479760996

Timely posts...I messaged a guy this morning about this pennant, which he just listed with a tidy asking price of $325 or best offer. He declares it original and having "hung in his father's office for as long as he remembers". I included these two pictures with my message, but as of yet, no change to the listing. I'd say the holograms date this to the early 90s at the oldest. The $35 asking price maybe early 2000s?

[MK]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Timely posts...I messaged a guy this morning about this pennant, which he just listed with a tidy asking price of $325 or best offer. He declares it original and having "hung in his father's office for as long as he remembers". I included these two pictures with my message, but as of yet, no change to the listing. I'd say the holograms date this to the early 90s at the oldest. The $35 asking price maybe early 2000s?

I especially love the “minor moth hole damage”. Nice touch.

[ooo-ribay]

I think I was embarrassed to show my $190 lesson that red doesn't like bleach. I completely ruined that pennant. What you see is my "restoration" with red sharpie.

I found another one ($180). My wife thought I was crazy to try bleach again. To be honest, I was a bit nervous. I protected the red and did the edges. Mission accomplished! I now have a $370 pennant!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Timely posts...I messaged a guy this morning about this pennant, which he just listed with a tidy asking price of $325 or best offer. He declares it original and having "hung in his father's office for as long as he remembers". I included these two pictures with my message, but as of yet, no change to the listing. I'd say the holograms date this to the early 90s at the oldest. The $35 asking price maybe early 2000s?

LOL. I bought this exact pennant among a few in the late 90s at the Mitchell and Ness retail store in Philadelphia. (Before I got into vintage pennants.)

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of weird screening textures ... came across this while continuing my inventory. There was apparently a brief period - perhaps 1960-61 - when the print had a velvet-like feel to it. I can date these by the picture pennants of the era, I know Phillies, Pirates, and Orioles all have it. Also this simple Phillies pennant below. Additionally, the 3D pennants have it. For whatever reason, it didn’t last long.

I wonder if that "velvet-like" feel would be known as "flocking"? Flocking is applying very short fibers to adhesive. I have a similar pennant without the velvet feel. I always assumed mine was 1970s and should have been licensed but was not.

P.S. this is not a pennant you see very often. I can't remember the last one I saw...

[bocca001]

Nice pennant, Rob. I've never seen that one in my 5+ years of Giants pennant collecting. I know that design is more common for some teams and rare for others. The Oakland A's version sold on ebay earlier this year for decent money, and I think I recall seeing an Oakland A's version that was specifically for Vida Blue.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I wonder if that "velvet-like" feel would be known as "flocking"? Flocking is applying very short fibers to adhesive. I have a similar pennant without the velvet feel. I always assumed mine was 1970s and should have been licensed but was not.

P.S. this is not a pennant you see very often. I can't remember the last one I saw...

If a pennant's graphics exhibit a raised velvet-like feel, then yes this is what they marketed as a flocked pennant. The process was used by a small handful of manufacturers beginning in the 1940s. Two companies in particular made it their signature design element: Collegiate Mfg. Co. and Chicago Pennant Co.

Collegiate of Ames branded pennants made using their flocking process as "Chromtone" pennants and marketed their pennants under this snazzy name. Chipenco followed suit; except they dubbed their flocking method "A Silvet Process." Despite the two names, they made their pennants the same way. Essentially, you screen on a base layer in white that's sticky. Then you dump a bunch of white "flock," i.e., ground felt dust, atop the pennant. The flock is then cured to the pennant via a heat treatment. The excess flock is removed. Finally, the secondary colors are applied via block-out stencils to the design.

The main advantage to flocking is that the graphics will never crack like they will on a screen printed pennant, using screen printer's paints.

Today, Collegiate Pacific still utilizes this premium production method on all of their felt products.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

If a pennant's graphics exhibit a raised velvet-like feel, then yes this is what they marketed as a flocked pennant. The process was used by a small handful of manufacturers beginning in the 1940s. Two companies in particular made it their signature design element: Collegiate Mfg. Co. and Chicago Pennant Co.

Collegiate of Ames branded pennants made using their flocking process as "Chromtone" pennants and marketed their pennants under this snazzy name. Chipenco followed suit; except they dubbed their flocking method "A Silvet Process." Despite the two names, they made their pennants the same way. Essentially, you screen on a base layer in white that's sticky. Then you dump a bunch of white "flock," i.e., ground felt dust, atop the pennant. The flock is then cured to the pennant via a heat treatment. The excess flock is removed. Finally, the secondary colors are applied via block-out stencils to the design.

The main advantage to flocking is that the graphics will never crack like they will on a screen printed pennant, using screen printer's paints.

Today, Collegiate Pacific still utilizes this premium production method on all of their felt products.

Great post Domer ... though I’ll add my 3D Giants and Yankees have light cracking in spots.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I wonder if that "velvet-like" feel would be known as "flocking"? Flocking is applying very short fibers to adhesive. I have a similar pennant without the velvet feel. I always assumed mine was 1970s and should have been licensed but was not.

P.S. this is not a pennant you see very often. I can't remember the last one I saw...

Sweet Giants pennant Rob. I'm sucker for anything with stars.

Rob

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I wonder if that "velvet-like" feel would be known as "flocking"? Flocking is applying very short fibers to adhesive. I have a similar pennant without the velvet feel. I always assumed mine was 1970s and should have been licensed but was not.

P.S. this is not a pennant you see very often. I can't remember the last one I saw...

Never saw Giants before, very nice! Here are Expos and Phillies ...

[Domer05]

Any chance these flocked pennants from the 1970s are in fact Mitchell and Ness reproductions from the 2000s?

Other than M&N's pennants, all of which were reproductions, the only other MLB pennants I can think of made with flocked graphics were the four 3-D pennants made by Collegiate of Ames in the 1950s for the Yankees, Dodgers, Giants, and Red Sox.

I just find it odd that this manufacturer would make a flocked version for one or two teams; then screen print the others the conventional way for the remaining teams.

Additionally ... I don't recall the Dodger version of this style--which I recall being screen printed--featuring tassels. Do the tassels on the above Expos and Phillies pennants not resemble the M&N tassels we discussed last week, i.e., placed closer to the center?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Any chance these flocked pennants from the 1970s are in fact Mitchell and Ness reproductions from the 2000s?

Other than M&N's pennants, all of which were reproductions, the only other MLB pennants I can think of made with flocked graphics were the four 3-D pennants made by Collegiate of Ames in the 1950s for the Yankees, Dodgers, Giants, and Red Sox.

I just find it odd that this manufacturer would make a flocked version for one or two teams; then screen print the others the conventional way for the remaining teams.

Additionally ... I don't recall the Dodger version of this style--which I recall being screen printed--featuring tassels. Do the tassels on the above Expos and Phillies pennants not resemble the M&N tassels we discussed last week, i.e., placed closer to the center?

These Expos and Phillies pennants are not Mitchell and Ness, the material is a cheaper paper-like felt. Genuine from early-mid 70s. The printing is standard of the time.

I can definitely attest to the 1960-61 Trench pennants as having flocked graphics. I’ll see if I can take a close up.

[thetahat]

This is my 1960 Phillies picture pennant.