T201 Mecca - Master Set/New Discovery/New Theory

[T206Collector]

T201s are great signed. I love mine.

Here’s one signed by Leifield and stamped by Burdick:



Here’s Doyle/Meyers signed by both:



All of my signed T201s lined up in a beautiful row...

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks, Cliff, I thought you would like the Dougherty factory 30. GL on the Kling...

Paul, nice run of cards. Do you know if the Burdick card was already signed when he got it? Did Burdick buy the card already signed or did he get it signed?

Here's M. Brown...

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Paul, nice run of cards. Do you know if the Burdick card was already signed when he got it? Did Burdick buy the card already signed or did he get it signed

Thanks! I have a theory that he traded the T201 to John D. Wagner, who got it signed. I have evidence that Wagner was one of the pioneer TTM signed card collectors. Here’s his correspondence with Fred Snodgrass, by which he secured a signed T206 card...

[Leon]

That Snodgrass and letter are out of this world cool. Can't get much better provenance than that.

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Thanks! I have a theory that he traded the T201 to John D. Wagner, who got it signed. I have evidence that Wagner was one of the pioneer TTM signed card collectors. Here’s his correspondence with Fred Snodgrass, by which he secured a signed T206 card...

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Marslife

T201 Mecca Double Folders – Master Set Complete? New Discovery, New Theory?

Hey All!

I am one of the fortunate folks that got my start to my tobacco card collection by winning the tobacco card lottery. My Grandpap was 12 years old in 1909; he was one of those “Newsies” hawking newspapers on the streets of NYC, while he was smoking Mecca cigarettes. I am sure he also harassed gentlemen coming out of the tobacco store begging for the double folders from their fresh packs. When he passed I inherited his shoebox of prized possessions from his rough childhood, amazed that they survived all those years!

He was obviously a Mecca man as most of the cards I inherited were the awesome double folders. Initially I had 65 or so double folders. I started swapping/trading or selling dupes to eventually make a full set. I then began upgrading, completed a few more sets to sell at auction, and fell under the “Master Set” spell. I began pursuing Factory sets about 2 years ago. My purchase of a Rucker/Daubert Factory 30 back last night, I believe (see below) completes my master set run (49/50 Factory 30 & 50/50 Factory 649).

By compiling several sets, research and reading about the double folders, the general hobby consensus is that the Lord/Dougherty is the only “short print” in the set as it could only be found with a Factory 649 back. I observed that the Lord/Dougherty is actually quite prevalent and easy to find for sale, albeit with a bit of a premium price.

My personal observations, as well as observations and postings from several other members are that the Kling/Cole is one of the harder cards to find. So here is my breaking news on the set.

I FOUND A Factory 30 Lord/Dougherty!! Located and purchased at the national this year. Photo is attached. I don’t know if this is one of a kind, or if there are many others out there and collectors just have not been cognizant of the Factory designations?? Admittedly I have been checking for another with a Factory 30 back since the National and haven’t located another.

Here is my NEW THEORY: I believe that the Kling/Cole is actually the short print of the set as I have been searching for a Kling/Cole Factory 30 back for 2 years and have not found one. I would ask that members of the Board search their Kling/Cole backs and either support or refute my theory. I would like to know either way. If none are found with a Factory 30 then my theory is likely correct. If there are Factory 30 Kling/Cole’s out there then my Master Set quest will continue!

I would appreciate any comments &/or assistance in searching for the Kling/Cole F30 back. If you find one of course would be interested in purchasing or swapping as I have many T201 dupes.

Thanks for your time and assistance!!

Also I would like to thank fellow Board members for assisting with swaps & sales of T201’s to help me along the way. Also special shout to Zach Wheat for sharing his knowledge and for the awesome T201 article in the Old Cardboard magazine. Also special acknowledgement to Keith Temple for his continued support of my upgrade quests.

Thanks again!

Cliff

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Congrats Cliff on the complete Master Set!! The first Master Set ever completed as far as I know. For those that don't know, Cliff and I have been discussing, texting, emailing about different items we have discovered about the set, since the 1st article in Old Cardboard (Spring, 2014).

After looking at the set for so long, the set appears to have many quirks that frankly might never be explained. I have some guesses to the questions posed above. A few random thoughts follow.

Factory 30 backs definitely are more scarce than F649. There seem to be 4 or 5 players that are more scarce than others. Following are some thoughts on why this may have occurred.

During the presumed time period for issuance of this set, the House of Mecca was in the process of relocating outside NY. ATC's own biographical depiction detailed in "Sold American! The First 50 Years" covering the periods from 1904 to 1954, seems to suggest they were struggling to brand & re-brand each type of cigarette after the breakup of the ATC and just prior to the issuance of this set. In fact, letters published from the elder Duke to his son, now stored at one of the NC libraries indicates the elder Duke imploring his son to have more wholesome images inserted into tobacco card packs.

The set appears to be distributed over several years and many of the teams/players have a NY association.
The F30 & F649 stamps seem to have been added "after" the cards were printed. If you look closely at the factory designation at the bottom reverse of each card, you will find that be base back design is consistent from card to card, but the alignment of the factory designation is not. This suggests that the Factory designation was not printed at the same time as the reverse.

The set has a peculiar population density based upon the # of cards for each player. Cobb for example, appears to be at least quadruple printed. Since the T201 was notoriously mis-cut side-to-side and you can tell by the different edge combinations of which player was adjacent to another player on a sheet. The same can be said for many HOF’ers in the set. Likewise, I have only found 1 edge combination for other players.

Apologies for the long winded post, but these and other factors appear to have affected the population of F30 cards we see today.

Congrats again to Cliff. You have put in a lot of hard work!

Z

[rsst206]

After looking over my set my Cole/kling is 649 along with Lord Daugherty.
I picked up these 2 beauties 20 years ago but getting the rest in this condition was difficult. Both 649's

[Marslife]

Hey Fellas!

Thanks Zach, gr8 synopsis of this super fun set!

gotta love the power of this board and GENEROSITY of the board members! Upon reading this post, Mr. Brian Parker (brianp-beme) noted that he had a Kling/Cole Mecca Factory 30 in his complete set. He graciously offered it to me in return for a similar condition Kling/Cole F649 to maintain his full set and to help me with my quest!!! This done out of the goodness of his heart and spirit of cooperation. Not often that something like this happens, I know that the card God's will smile upon Mr. Parker someday and hope that he will stumble upon a magical card find that will fulfill his collecting wishes!

Thanks Brian! you are a true Gentleman!

So that being said, I have finally completed my Master set quest with all 50 cards with F649 and all 50 cards with F30 backs!

added bonus that there is a sliver of another player in the right side of the Kling/Cole F30 that with a little research I should be able to ID the player/sheet mate.... great stuff...

So we have now two known Kling/Coles with F30 backs.... hope we can dig up a few more out there...

here are some pics of the new acquisition:

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Thanks AGAIN Brian!

Cliff

[RCMcKenzie]

That's great, Cliff and Brian. Fun to see a complete Master set....Rob

[chlankf]

Thanks to the work of many here, I jumped into work on this master set. I'm close but you can all image two that I'm missing for sure. Please remember me when the next ones pop their heads up. Fortunately, with information on this board I concentrated on fact 30 when building my initial set.

Congratulations gentleman great accomplishment. I hope to someday join your elusive club.

Craig

[Marslife]

Hey T201 Brethren!

Picked up the third know cards of Kling/Cole and Lord/Dougherty in the Birmingham Auction (thanks Scott) :-)

They are in rough shape but factory number is visible!

Gotta be more out there, at least one sheets worth!

Enjoy!

Cliff

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[Zach Wheat]

Nice job Cliff on the pick up. You have eagle eyes....constantly scouting for the rare F30's. And it seems to me that the factory #'s were added to the cards AFTER the cards were printed. I have always believed a full set of F30's was out there.

T206 - Love your signed T201's. I may have to start collecting signed ones!

[drmondobueno]

Attachment 415775

Thought maybe someone might like seeing these again. I always do...

[chlankf]

Cliff was kind enough to reach out to me about his discovery. He offered me the Kling/Cole for my master set. I feel like a 10 year old waiting on Christmas. My wifey is sooo tired of me taking about this card for the last week or so. I am thrilled to be a part of such a great group of people. Cliff 2024 POTUS.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by chlankf

Cliff was kind enough to reach out to me about his discovery. He offered me the Kling/Cole for my master set. I feel like a 10 year old waiting on Christmas. My wifey is sooo tired of me taking about this card for the last week or so. I am thrilled to be a part of such a great group of people. Cliff 2024 POTUS.

Cliff is a truly good guy. And Craig, you will be in rare company if you can complete a master set! I am still working on a master set. It was never a priority for me, but I am so close.....

[chlankf]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Cliff is a truly good guy. And Craig, you will be in rare company if you can complete a master set! I am still working on a master set. It was never a priority for me, but I am so close.....

Thanks Zach. I have kind of put my master set on the back burner for a while and been picking up T205s. I was somewhat concerned that I would never find these two. I've kept my eyes out for them and if found would put more effort into the master. Now that I am receiving one of the two, I'm refocusing. Good luck on finishing yours Zach.

Craig

[G1911]

Originally Posted by chlankf

Cliff was kind enough to reach out to me about his discovery. He offered me the Kling/Cole for my master set. I feel like a 10 year old waiting on Christmas. My wifey is sooo tired of me taking about this card for the last week or so. I am thrilled to be a part of such a great group of people. Cliff 2024 POTUS.

He has my vote too! Very cool pickup. Have always thought these two cards must be a clue to the sheet layouts, but that there are seemingly only two SP's at random doesn't fit with the other evidence I am aware of.

[asoriano]

[chlankf]

Those two are awesome

[yanks87]

antique store find. I guess I am in the hunt for T201's now!!