Help with this 52 Topps Mantle

Blunder19 · #1 02-26-2020, 11:34 PM

hoping others can chime in... in the title of the video it says "disregard comments on fake backs"... does that mean the back theory was proved wrong?

i am finding cards in PSA holders that sold on ebay with the stitching the same way as the card i am supposed to look at..

example of a PSA 5.. with stitching from right to left.... based on the below i would reverse my thinking and say the card is real... any input is appreciated..

Cliff Bowman · #2 02-26-2020, 11:43 PM

It doesn't prove that it is real but that is the correct stitching direction for the 1952 Topps Mantle with the black line under the Yankees logo.

irv · #3 02-27-2020, 12:15 AM

Mantle, Robinson and Thompson were double printed cards and the stitching is is counter clockwise on them.

Mantle is easier to tell as the front has more differences than the other 2 cards as has been pointed out.
Use these pics. It should help you with your decision.
There is also this link: https://allvintagecards.com/how-to-s...-topps-mantle/

Good luck.

cardsagain74 · #4 02-27-2020, 12:38 AM

What is the red 4 pointing to on the type 1? I don't see that referenced anywhere.

The allvintagecards link that Irv just posted is very accurate.

The stitching on the baseball on the back goes right to left on Type 1s (which is your card), and left to right on type 2s, so that looks ok. In the video, his information about fake backs is wrong, so that guy is probably referring his own advice where he says "disregard comments on fake backs".

Based on everything I can see from your card (using all the expert info referenced), it looks like a real type 1 card. Which I cannot fathom, since as mentioned, the initial screwdown low grade appearance just screams typical fake. But it does appear to check all the right boxes, unless there's something I'm missing

This is just my very neophyte opinion on spotting fakes, especially when it comes to the '52 Mantle. Caveat emptor.

thecomebacker · #5 02-27-2020, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

What is the red 4 pointing to on the type 1? I don't see that referenced anywhere.

The allvintagecards link that Irv just posted is very accurate.

The stitching on the baseball on the back goes right to left on Type 1s (which is your card), and left to right on type 2s, so that looks ok. In the video, his information about fake backs is wrong, so that guy is probably referring his own advice where he says "disregard comments on fake backs".

Based on everything I can see from your card (using all the expert info referenced), it looks like a real type 1 card. Which I cannot fathom, since as mentioned, the initial screwdown low grade appearance just screams typical fake. But it does appear to check all the right boxes, unless there's something I'm missing

This is just my very neophyte opinion on spotting fakes, especially when it comes to the '52 Mantle. Caveat emptor.

This guy is right ^^^. The guy in the video is an idiot. He doesn�t even know th Type 1 back. The card you showed has a chance of being real.

egbeachley · #6 02-27-2020, 06:42 AM

Are fakes so good now that an experienced collector can�t tell from good scans?

The wear looks natural to me. I think it�s real.

chriskim · #7 02-27-2020, 07:51 AM

With all these hesitation in mind, I wouldn't buy an ungraded Mantle. Period! Unless it is a few thousand dollar less but (again) that would be too good to be true. A graded 1 Mantle RC is less than $10k anyways.

chriskim · #8 02-27-2020, 08:03 AM

Just scan thru that youtube video... he should delete his video if there's incorrect information. putting ""disregard comments on fake backs"" in comment isn't enough. STUPID!

tedzan · #9 02-27-2020, 08:03 AM

Hi Jamie

Here are the two Mantle cards from my master 1952 TOPPS set. When you compare the front's, you will notice minor differences.
The most notable difference is the glossy glare on Mickey's right arm (Type 2) vs. the clear skin tone (Type 1).

Type 1 .................................................. .........��........... Type 2

And, as already stated the stitches on the BB on the back are reversed between Type 1 vs. Type 2 cards.

Good luck.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Fuddjcal · #10 02-29-2020, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Jamie

Here are the two Mantle cards from my master 1952 TOPPS set. When you compare the front's, you will notice minor differences.
The most notable difference is the glossy glare on Mickey's right arm (Type 2) vs. the clear skin tone (Type 1).

Type 1 .................................................. .........……........... Type 2

And, as already stated the stitches on the BB on the back are reversed between Type 1 vs. Type 2 cards.

Good luck.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Here's a Coinky Dink for all you Mantle Fans!!!!

I believe I own the same card as the type 2 in your 1952 master set?

Of course it's been cracked out and into another holder, but here is a photo and a scan of the same card. In the scan, you can see the crease by the logo. When I bought the card, I did some research before the purchase to see if the card had been altered and I saw that same exact card and assumed it was the same?

I had a respected AH, associated with the sale of the card, tell me he made the flip...

What do think? Is it the same card?

1952boyntoncollector · #11 02-29-2020, 11:28 AM

what you mean 'made the flip'

Fuddjcal · #12 02-29-2020, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

what you mean 'made the flip'

From the card in Ted Z's original post with the old SGC label to my card with the new SGC label. I think that's what they call it a "flip".

I'm sorry, but the terminology is new to me. Flip, Flop, POP...whatever you call it, it's the SAME CARD. From one plastic container to another newer plastic container....

I was just curious how the card could be in someones "Master 1952 Topps set", yet the card is in my possession??? Unless, mine is FAKE, which is certainly possible? Maybe we can just add it to the Billion Dollar Fraud?

RCMcKenzie · #13 02-29-2020, 11:51 AM

I know I sometimes post a scan of a card that I used to own, and forget that I traded it away years earlier. Maybe that's what happened here. Your Mantle has good provenance it seems...Rob

1952boyntoncollector · #14 03-01-2020, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

From the card in Ted Z's original post with the old SGC label to my card with the new SGC label. I think that's what they call it a "flip".

I'm sorry, but the terminology is new to me. Flip, Flop, POP...whatever you call it, it's the SAME CARD. From one plastic container to another newer plastic container....

I was just curious how the card could be in someones "Master 1952 Topps set", yet the card is in my possession??? Unless, mine is FAKE, which is certainly possible? Maybe we can just add it to the Billion Dollar Fraud?

I have said many times, I wish there was an 'owner registry' so you can look up a cert number to see if someone is claiming ownership. Can be annoymous or a way to send email where real email is hidden to find out if a card for sale is really theirs ..

swarmee · #15 02-29-2020, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

what you mean 'made the flip'

The coin people use that terminology for getting the item into the holder by the company in a certain grade they were expecting. He was not saying he created the flip (although I can see the confusion).
Certainly looks like the same card; maybe Ted should check his set to make sure he either sold it and forgot, or report it stolen.

samosa4u · #16 02-29-2020, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Here's a Coinky Dink for all you Mantle Fans!!!!

I believe I own the same card as the type 2 in your 1952 master set?

Of course it's been cracked out and into another holder, but here is a photo and a scan of the same card. In the scan, you can see the crease by the logo. When I bought the card, I did some research before the purchase to see if the card had been altered and I saw that same exact card and assumed it was the same?

I had a respected AH, associated with the sale of the card, tell me he made the flip...

What do think? Is it the same card?

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... what the heck is going on here? So Ted posts this SGC 3 Mantle above and tells people it's from his master set, and yet Chuck owns the exact same one?

Based on the scans Chuck posted, it looks like that crease on the Yankees logo has been pressed out.

The colors also look a little bit faded, so the card might have been soaked for a while.

Chuck, I want you to tilt this Mantle of yours under a lamp - is that crease on the Yankees logo completely gone?

Fuddjcal · #17 02-29-2020, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... what the heck is going on here? So Ted posts this SGC 3 Mantle above and tells people it's from his master set, and yet Chuck owns the exact same one?

Based on the scans Chuck posted, it looks like that crease on the Yankees logo has been pressed out.

The colors also look a little bit faded, so the card might have been soaked for a while.

Chuck, I want you to tilt this Mantle of yours under a lamp - is that crease on the Yankees logo completely gone?

No, the pic I have was taken by a camera with light.

The scan was taken from my reg HP scanner with the contrast up a little.

The card looks the same to me as Ted Z's with the crease. The crease was definitely there when I bought it. This helped me to determine it was the
same card and someone was NOT tryin to take the crease out.

The picture with the light, definitely hides the crease and mutes the blue, that's for sure.

samosa4u · #18 02-29-2020, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

No, the pic I have was taken by a camera with light.

The scan was taken from my reg HP scanner with the contrast up a little.

The card looks the same to me as Ted Z's with the crease. The crease was definitely there when I bought it. This helped me to determine it was the
same card and someone was NOT tryin to take the crease out.

The picture with the light, definitely hides the crease and mutes the blue, that's for sure.

Thanks for the clarification. So I guess there are vintage cards out there that HAVEN'T been altered, right Chuck?

I'm still waiting to see what Ted has to say about this.

tedzan · #19 03-01-2020, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Here's a Coinky Dink for all you Mantle Fans!!!!

I believe I own the same card as the type 2 in your 1952 master set?

Of course it's been cracked out and into another holder, but here is a photo and a scan of the same card. In the scan, you can see the crease by the logo. When I bought the card, I did some research before the purchase to see if the card had been altered and I saw that same exact card and assumed it was the same?

I had a respected AH, associated with the sale of the card, tell me he made the flip...

What do think? Is it the same card?

Hi Chuck

I just returned home from my 3 days set-up at the Philly Show, so excuse my delay in responding.

Yes, that was my Type 2 version of the 1952 Mantle. I recently sold it. My scan of the two Mantle cards is a couple of years old.

This Mantle was originally in my friend's collection. He acquired it in the Fall of 1952 when he was a teenager in the Smoky Mountain region of North Carolina.

Shown below is a scan of this card prior to me getting it graded by SGC.

There you go....how's that for provenance. I hope you are happy with it.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

RedsFan1941 · #20 03-01-2020, 05:33 PM

another great story ted!!!!

tedzan · #21 03-01-2020, 05:59 PM

Hey redsfan1941

My long-time friend in North Carolina passed away several years ago, and he traded me his Mantle card while he was still alive.

So, shut up your FREAKING, SARCASTIC mouth ! !

YOU ARE DISGUSTING !

Sorry about this, every one here....but, this "JERK" has been posting this kind of "negative crap" for several years. And, I'm not putting up with it ANYMORE !

Fuddjcal · #22 03-01-2020, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Chuck

I just returned home from my 3 days set-up at the Philly Show, so excuse my delay in responding.

Yes, that was my Type 2 version of the 1952 Mantle. I recently sold it. My scan of the two Mantle cards is a couple of years old.

This Mantle was originally in my friend's collection. He acquired it in the Fall of 1952 when he was a teenager in the Smoky Mountain region of North Carolina.

Shown below is a scan of this card prior to me getting it graded by SGC.

There you go....how's that for provenance. I hope you are happy with it.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

THANKS Ted Z,

YES I love it. Thanks for the pic of the card before it was entombed, broken out and entombed again...Just stunning. Great to know the details about my favorite card!!! I have to say finding this out is what this board is supposed to be about.

I know the feeling when guys follow you around & jump your shit when you put your opinions out there and tear into you personally. There's a couple right in this thread

This is about the cards and it's the reason we all keep coming back here. We all love them!

Sorry about your buddy, but know that the card will stay with me until I'm gone and I do appreciate it. Some of you might be around, others not the next time it goes for up for sale.

You know, I ran into my first thief in the Baseball Card business 46 years ago when I bought my first 52 mantle for $75.00. I was 13 and that was a lot of money in 1974. The card never came but I did receive 10 other cards and a $25.00 credit memo. Maybe that's what started my sincere distrust in the hobby? I finally was able to buy it back in 2019 for just a tad higher than $75.00

Thanks again for the info Ted

Fuddjcal · #23 03-01-2020, 07:56 PM

Here's a pic of the little baby today sunbathing out by the BBQ. It was a little overcast but she sure looks good!

Good Luck Jamie finding the one that's right for you!

tedzan · #24 03-01-2020, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

THANKS Ted Z,

YES I love it. Thanks for the pic of the card before it was entombed, broken out and entombed again...Just stunning. Great to know the details about my favorite card!!! I have to say finding this out is what this board is supposed to be about.

I know the feeling when guys follow you around & jump your shit when you put your opinions out there and tear into you personally. There's a couple right in this thread

This is about the cards and it's the reason we all keep coming back here. We all love them!

Sorry about your buddy, but know that the card will stay with me until I'm gone and I do appreciate it. Some of you might be around, others not the next time it goes for up for sale.

You know, I ran into my first thief in the Baseball Card business 46 years ago when I bought my first 52 mantle for $75.00. I was 13 and that was a lot of money in 1974. The card never came but I did receive 10 other cards and a $25.00 credit memo. Maybe that's what started my sincere distrust in the hobby? I finally was able to buy it back in 2019 for just a tad higher than $75.00

Thanks again for the info Ted

THANK YOU, Chuck, for your kind words.

The original owner of your 1952T Mantle is Ralph Triplette , who grew up near Asheville, NC. He was a Professor at Western Carolina Univ. We met in 1981, and our love and research
regarding the 1949 BOWMAN cards and 1952 TOPPS cards is what got us together back then. Ralph and I co-authored a very informative article on the 1949 BOWMAN set in the 1983
issue of Bob Lemke's Baseball Cards magazine. Here is a sample of it. So, if your also interested in BOWMAN cards, you'll find this article very interesting reading.

.

Take care,

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

todeen · #25 02-27-2020, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Are fakes so good now that an experienced collector can�t tell from good scans?

The wear looks natural to me. I think it�s real.

I thought the same thing about usual wear.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

packs · #26 02-27-2020, 08:15 AM

I would say there is probably like a 2 percent chance it's authentic. What's the story with the card? I find hard to believe that anyone would know enough to know the 52 Mantle exists but not know enough about how to maximize value on a card like that re: getting it graded or auctioning it through a house.

It would be like if someone said they found a first issue of Superman and instead of doing any due diligence they posted an ad on Craigslist. How likely is it to work out for the buyer?

Leon · #27 02-27-2020, 08:32 AM

Could be real with a hidden alteration such as coloring etc.....which could be why it's not in a holder. Caveat emptor. Maybe buy with the guarantee of it being unaltered according to the opinionators.

Rhotchkiss · #28 02-27-2020, 08:36 AM

Jamie, not that TPGs are always right, but I, personally, would never buy a card of this magnitude, especially if it�s outside my comfort (I.e., t206 for you), that wasn�t in an SGC or PSA flip. As we all know, hazing it in the flip is no guaranty, but it does provide a level of comfort that I would need.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #29 02-27-2020, 08:57 AM

I also like the wear as someone stated above and think it's legit, but Leon makes a very good point. Just because it may be authentic doesn't mean it's problem free. If it is real AND unaltered I think it's a "2." I would prefer to see it out of the screw down though.

hcv123 · #30 02-27-2020, 09:06 AM

Just looked at a fake 53 and 52 Bowman the other day. Essential tools:

1) A known real 1952 Topps card (any player) - to compare feel, size and appearance
2) A ruler to make sure it measures correct 2 5/8 x 3 3/4
3) a 10 power loupe - under magnification a fake will appear to have a "dot pattern" over areas that should be solid color
4) a blacklight to check for recoloring and alteration
5) a printout of the signs to look for on a fake - readily available with a google search for both type 1 and type 2 cards.
6) Common sense - applied as needed

Good luck - let us know how it works out.

Ps Was this a "Craigs list find"? If so be EXTRA careful

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