Astros sign stealing suspensions

[GasHouseGang]

I haven't read all of these comments in detail, but I started to wonder how the Astros cheating may have affected bonuses that would have been due, or other salary negotiations for the players on the other teams after they lost in the playoffs or World Series. There must be many players that have monetary incentives tied to their post season performance. This scandal had to have cost multiple players on the losing teams millions in salary. I liked that Mike Trout came out and said the punishment didn't fit the crime and more should be done to punish the players involved.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I haven't posted in quite a while, life got in the way. So, I'm just now catching up on this thread. I have a question for those (especially Dodger fans) that think the Astros should vacate their title. Don Drysdale (Dodger) admittedly threw spitballs which are banned. Since he cheated too, should the Dodgers vacate their '59, '63 and '65 World Series Titles? If not, what's the difference? How can you condemn one team for cheating, but not another? I guess you could make the argument that Drysdale was only one person where the Astros did it as a team. Well, not really. Not every Astro was involved in the cheating, and Drysdale's teammates had to have known what he was doing. They didn't say anything. My point is that in both scenarios, multiple people had to have known whether they participated or not.

I'd also argue the fact that the cheating really didn't give them an advantage. They did much better on the road (where they're not accused of cheating) than they did at home (where they did cheat). Look at the road stats from 2017 compared to the home stats.

HOME:
Avg: .279
OBP: .340
Slg: .472
Runs scored: 395
W-L: 48-33

ROAD:
Avg: .284
OBP: .351
Slg: .483
Runs scored: 501
W-L: 53-28

And when it was all on the line, game 7 of the World Series, in LA, the Dodgers folded like an accordion 5-1. Were the Astros cheating that game too? Dodgers had a chance to wrap it up at home in a game 7 and they didn't get the job done. Period.

And this really isn't about the Astros, Drysdale or anything else. It's a matter of how people can justify certain cheating scenarios, but condemn others. I truly don't get that. And I'm not trying to justify what the Astros did. Yes, they cheated. Nobody is denying that. I'm not making excuses for it. But here's the difference. I own up to and acknowledge my team's cheating, do you own up to yours?

Yes, let's take away the Astros 2017 World Series Title...right after we take away the Dodgers '59, '63 and '65 Titles.

[packs]

Throwing a spitball and using your entire clubhouse to cheat are very different scenarios. People want the Astros punished as a team and the players on that team punished for their behavior as a team. If you want to say Drysdale should be punished now for throwing a spitball, that's fair. But what similarities are you trying to draw between one individual player throwing an illegal pitch and an entire team conspiring to use technology to steal signs and it's own players to relay that information to a batter in real time?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Throwing a spitball and using your entire clubhouse to cheat are very different scenarios. People want the Astros punished as a team and the players on that team punished for their behavior as a team. If you want to say Drysdale should be punished now for throwing a spitball, that's fair. But what similarities are you trying to draw between one individual player throwing an illegal pitch and an entire team conspiring to use technology to steal signs and it's own players to relay that information to a batter in real time?

Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if it's an individual effort or a team effort - either way, it's done for the benefit of the team - not the individual. You can spin it however you wish.

[packs]

It's not a spin, it's what happened.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

It's not a spin, it's what happened.

I'm not denying that's what happened. You are correct.

The spin comes when you try to justify cheating based on the number of individuals involved. Once again, cheating is cheating no matter if it's an individual effort or a team effort. The intent of the cheating is still the same - to give your team an advantage.

[packs]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not denying that's what happened. You are correct.

The spin comes when you try to justify cheating based on the number of individuals involved. Once again, cheating is cheating no matter if it's an individual effort or a team effort. The intent of the cheating is still the same - to give your team an advantage.

I don't think I'm the one justifying cheating. And I can't help but see a difference between the actions of an individual and the coordinated actions of an entire team.